From Sharpie to Simplicity: Carl Richards redefining Money and Meaning, with Sketch's that foster Conversations
Carl Richards started The Sketch Guy column in The New York Times from the hills of Utah, crafting clear, relatable insights about money with just cardstock and a Sharpie. The column ran weekly for a decade. This journey began when Carl applied for what he thought was a job as a “security guard,” only to find out the ad actually said “securities.” That slight misstep sparked a lifelong dedication to reshaping how we think about money.
Since then, Carl has become a Certified Financial Planner™, built and sold a successful investment firm, and spoken at financial and investment events worldwide—from Australia to South Africa, the UK, and major economic centers across Europe, Canada, and the United States. His bestsellers, The Behavior Gap and The One-Page Financial Plan, have been translated into over ten languages and continue to resonate globally.
Through his daily podcast, Behavior Gap Radio, which now has over 1,000 episodes and over one million downloads, Carl shares new perspectives on aligning our resources with what truly matters. His latest audio project, 50 Fires, backed by executive producers Chip and Joanna Gaines, explores the intersections of money and meaning with guests like Pete Holmes, David Whyte, Krista Tippett, and his favorite guest by far, his wife, Cori.
Carl founded The Society of Advice, a community of financial planners dedicated to the craft of advice. They gather for a monthly online workshop and frequent retreats in Park City, Utah.
In 2025, Carl will release a new book that, true to form, will be unlike anything seen in the personal finance section—and you better believe there will be sketches (101 of them, to be exact).
Pre-Order: Your Money: Reimagining Wealth in Simple Sketches
When he’s not exploring ideas about money, Carl, a Wilderness First Responder, can be found navigating Utah’s high mountain ridges on foot, skis, or bike. Married to Cori since 1995, they have four kids, whom they consider their best friends.
For information about Carl Richards speaking to your organization or appearing on your podcast, click here.
Episode Summary:
In this special episode of Money Roots, host Amy Irvine welcomes Carl Richards, also known as the Sketch Guy of the New York Times. The discussion centers around Carl's innovative new book, which serves as both a financial guide and conversation starter, featuring 101 insightful sketches and essays about personal finance. Through this medium, Carl aims to encourage meaningful dialogue about money—a subject often avoided yet deeply impactful in our personal lives. From his unconventional start in finance to becoming an influential voice in financial planning, Carl’s journey is a testament to reshaping how people perceive and engage with money.
Throughout the conversation, Carl emphasizes the critical role of conversations in financial planning, advocating that understanding and clarity arise from dialogue. Amy and Carl delve into the book’s thematic sections, exploring how each segment—from mindset to wisdom—guides readers through an introspective financial journey. The podcast highlights Carl's aspiration to reduce global money-related anxiety and foster healthier relationships with finances. By aligning personal values with financial habits, Carl encourages readers and listeners alike to engage with the emotional complexities of money. This episode offers a fresh perspective on financial literacy, underscoring the transformative power of conversation and simplicity in understanding money matters.
Key Takeaways:
- Carl Richards transformed complex financial concepts into simple sketches to facilitate understanding and conversation.
- The book, featuring 101 sketches and essays, is designed to provoke meaningful discussions about money.
- Key sections of the book include “Mindset,” “Stillness,” and “Wisdom,” helping guide users through the financial experience.
- The ultimate goal of Carl’s book is to decrease the global anxiety surrounding money through improved financial dialogue.
- Financial planning is most effective when it is conversational, helping clients align personal values with financial actions.
Notable Quotes:
- "I'm convinced that really good financial decisions happen in conversation."
- "Your values are not at war; they're in conversation."
- "There's something magic about especially the physical version of a book."
- "The global anxiety around our money hasn't been getting better."
- "I just want to lower the global anxiety around our relationship with money."
Resources:
- Carl Richards' website
- Books by Carl Richards: "The Behavior Gap" and "The One-Page Financial Plan"
- "Behavior Gap Radio" - Carl Richards' podcast
- Society of Advice - A community founded by Carl Richards for financial planners
Explore Carl Richards' engaging approach to financial planning in this episode, offering insights to deepen your understanding of personal finance. Stay tuned for more enlightening content from Money Roots, dialing into the heart of financial wisdom and growth.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- New York Times
- Behavior Gap
- One Page Financial Plan
- 50 Fires
- Chip and Joanna Gaines
- Society of Advice
- Park City, Utah
- David White
Transcript
Hello, money Root listeners.
Speaker A:We have a special treat for you today for this podcast, and I'm super excited to have a guest on the show today by the name of Carl Richards.
Speaker A:Carl started as the Sketch Guy, columnist in the New York Times from the hills of Utah, crafting clear, I would say, very relatable insights about money with just some cardstock and a sharpie pen.
Speaker A:The column ran weekly for decades, and his journey began when Carl actually applied for what he thought was a security guard job, only to find out the ad actually said securities.
Speaker A:This slight misstep sparked a lifelong dedication to reshaping how people think about money.
Speaker A:Since then, Carl has become a certified financial planner.
Speaker A:He built and sold a successful investment firm and has spoken at financial and investment events worldwide from Australia to South Africa, the UK Here in the United States, major economic centers across Europe, Canada, and like I said, here in the U.S. his bestsellers, the Behavior Gap and the One Page Financial Plan have been translated into over 10 languages and continue to resonate globally, even with me, you know, a financial person.
Speaker A:He has a daily podcast that I listen to personally, very short, five to 10 minutes, usually called Behavior Gap Radio.
Speaker A: ubscriber, which now has over: Speaker A:Carl shares new perspectives on aligning our resources with what truly matters.
Speaker A:And if you've listened to my podcast in the past, you know, that really resonates with me.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He also launched a podcast called 50 Fires.
Speaker A:So this is actually an audio project called 50 Fires, both backed by executive producers Chip and Joanna Gaines.
Speaker A:And it explores the intersection of money and the meeting with guests like Peter Holmes, dav, David White, who's a phenomenal poet, if you don't know, and his favorite by far and fabulous wife, Corey.
Speaker A:And Carl also founded the Success the Society of Advice, which is a community for people like me, financial planners dedicated to the craft, particularly of advice.
Speaker A:We gather monthly online for workshops and even retreats out in Park City, Utah, which, if you recommend there, it should be a destination that you explore this year.
Speaker A:Coming up, within the next few weeks, Carl's going to be releasing a new book, which we're going to be talking about, which is true to his form and will be like any other, I would say, personal finance book that you're ever going to read.
Speaker A:You'll hear me make mention that I think everybody should buy this book.
Speaker A:There's 101 sketches in the book.
Speaker A:They're amazing.
Speaker A:They really make you think.
Speaker A:And I think everybody like, we're going to use them with client meetings.
Speaker A:So for folks that work with us, they're definitely going to see it in the work that we do with them.
Speaker A:When Carl is not exploring ideas about money, he is a wilderness first responder and can be found navigating Utah's high mountain ridges on foot, skis or bike.
Speaker A: ried to his wife, Corey since: Speaker A:They have four kids.
Speaker A:And the beautiful part about that is that he considers them or they consider them their best friends.
Speaker A:I know you're going to love this podcast.
Speaker A:I loved the conversation with him.
Speaker A:I always loved the conversation that I have with Carl.
Speaker A:Please tune in for the entire thing and we'll have in the show notes the links to get his new and upcoming book that I made mention of.
Speaker B:Well, Carl, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Speaker B:I'm sure that the listeners are just gonna love the conversation that we're going to have.
Speaker B:I am so looking forward to this conversation because I have been an avid reader of your books, prior books to the new one that's gonna be coming out.
Speaker B:And as I read this existing book that you are going to be releasing in October, I just, I was struck by how much thought I think people are going to have as they look at each of the different sketches that you've put together.
Speaker B:But let me back up and ask the question.
Speaker B:What made you decide to go down this road with the journey of this book?
Speaker C:Well, first, Amy, thank you.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:I don't know what the right word is.
Speaker C:Rewarding.
Speaker C:Lovely.
Speaker C:Amazing to have another conversation with you about this work and the book.
Speaker C:So I've been resisting this.
Speaker C:It's been 11 years and I've been saying no to the idea of a book until.
Speaker C:And I've been focused completely on conversations.
Speaker C:Like I.
Speaker C:A couple years ago, it was probably now like six or seven years ago, I decided that writing wasn't my favorite medium, like that audio and conversations.
Speaker C:And so I've been doing a lot more of that because I'm convinced that really good financial decisions happen in conversation and even further, that really good financial planning happens in conversation.
Speaker C:And so I've been happy going down that road.
Speaker C:Like, happy not touching a keyboard metaphorically, or as close as I can get to not touching a keyboard.
Speaker C:And I realized that we as sort of humans and as a society, we need tools to help us have more meaningful conversations with money.
Speaker C:We were never taught.
Speaker C:In fact, most of us were taught not to talk about money.
Speaker C:And then if we were taught anything, what we see modeled on the financial pornography network is not the type of conversation that I'm interested in, right?
Speaker C:So I was like, man, how could we facilitate more conversations?
Speaker C:And there's something magic about especially the physical version of a book.
Speaker C:The electronic version is great, too, but the physical version ends up being this sort of really interesting artifact that you can kind of hand to someone, or it's sitting on a coffee table, and you open it up and you say, like, what do you think of that?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:And you can point to it.
Speaker C:So I just.
Speaker C:I just got really excited about the idea of creating a tool or an artifact that could be passed around.
Speaker C:And even the image of that makes me excited.
Speaker C:Just the idea of passing it around with the total intent of generating more conversations, more meaningful conversations about money.
Speaker C:So we can kind of make sense of this.
Speaker C:And also, there was also this piece of me that was like, now more than ever, you know, it just seems like now more than ever, we need to make sense of it so that we can have a better relationship with money, because the kind of global anxiety around our money hasn't been getting better.
Speaker C:So that's how I landed on this idea of 101 sketches and 101 essays.
Speaker C:Some of them are two sentences.
Speaker C:None of them will take you more than four minutes to read.
Speaker C:But that's how I landed on the idea.
Speaker B:Well, when I was reading down through it myself and, you know, putting some thought about me, particularly putting some thought behind, oh, this is one that I want to show to Client X.
Speaker B:And this is one that I want to show to client.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:Like, I was thinking about it in that context initially, and then I went back through a second time and read it slower, because you can read it from front to cover in one setting if you want.
Speaker B:Although I think it's probably better digested in slower.
Speaker B:And it's sort of the thought that came to my mind was that it's a really good chapter, picture book.
Speaker B:So if you think about, you know, young kids, when they first start, they shift, start shift from picture books to chapter books.
Speaker B:This is a really good combination of the two.
Speaker B:I started to take some notes for myself on some of them because there are certain things that I think really hit home at different times in your life.
Speaker B:And that's one thing that's nice about the physical book, too.
Speaker B:As much as I love digital things and being a digital practice, I always.
Speaker B:When it comes to books, there's always that sense of something I can touch there's nothing better when I close the book at the end of.
Speaker B:Especially, you know, if it's a book for pleasure, close that and think, oh my gosh, that was a really unique ending.
Speaker B:But then when I have books like this that I can go back to and you said shareable and, and actually pull out and say.
Speaker B:Let's pause for a second.
Speaker B:My favorite, just so you know, my favorite sketch out of all of them and in this book is you still smoke.
Speaker B:That's the one, the one that stands out to me because I think that that's something that a lot of people struggle with.
Speaker B:You are.
Speaker B:You already mentioned the financial pornography.
Speaker B:And to me, this is like the best one that sort of sits into that category.
Speaker B:But when you went on this journey, was your thought originally around, I want to, I want to help financial planners have conversations or I want, you know, the end.
Speaker B:I want to say consumer.
Speaker B:To have.
Speaker B:To read this and to prompt financial conversations or to have thoughts around it.
Speaker B:What was your hope?
Speaker B:So, you know, when you.
Speaker B:So we've had a lot of conversations around how messy it gets from point A to point B, right?
Speaker B:How things are all knotted up in between those two stages.
Speaker B:And you said it took you around 11 years to actually do this.
Speaker B:But what was your initial hope when you actually finally sat down and said, no, I'm going to do it.
Speaker B:I'm giving up on the resistance and I'm actually going to do this?
Speaker C:Well, I just had, in my mind, I always had this vision of, you know, a family sitting around the dinner table having conversation.
Speaker C:A conversation about what is enough or we.
Speaker C:One of my daughters recently asked me.
Speaker C:She said, she said, we're the wealthiest family I know.
Speaker C:And I was like, I felt a little defensive about that, actually.
Speaker C:I was like, no, we're not.
Speaker C:Don't, you know, so and so and so and so and so and so and so and so, you know, the private jet person and the.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:And I actually did have that initial reaction came out of my mouth and then I was able to court.
Speaker C:We were on a mountain bike ride.
Speaker C:So I had a minute to think and I, I said, wait, tell me what you mean by that.
Speaker C:What do you mean by.
Speaker C:And she said, Because I told her, like, she said, no, no, that's not what I mean by wealth.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, what do you mean?
Speaker C:He said, well, we really do kind of what we want.
Speaker C:Like, we, we, we spend our time.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, well, then, yeah, like, I'll take, I'll take that.
Speaker C:But that kind of conversation.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Is in my mind, I'm imagining a family around a table.
Speaker C:I'm around imagining a couple on a road trip.
Speaker C:I'm imagining two friends sitting in the corner of a coffee shop.
Speaker C:And there was some question that got sparked.
Speaker C:Whether the book's there or not, I don't care it.
Speaker C:And then, of course, in my mind, I'm always like, I'm a big fan and believer in the work that real financial planners do, and I'm trying to separate them from fake ones.
Speaker C:And that's a whole nother subject.
Speaker C:But there are real ones in the world, as you know, and the real ones.
Speaker C:To me, the reason I love working with financial planners is the.
Speaker C:The lever, the compound and leveraged impact that can happen.
Speaker C:So if a financial planner decides that this is a useful tool, there might be a hundred families having these conversations from one financial planner.
Speaker C:Because that's been.
Speaker C:Historically, a lot of my.
Speaker C:Both books have been books that people have handed out quite a bit.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:And I actually had that in mind with this one.
Speaker C:I was like, I want to make this the most useful tool for anybody who wants to facilitate more meaningful discussions about money, the type that we're not having.
Speaker C:So I had both in mind.
Speaker B:Both in mind.
Speaker B:Well, you sort of put that in the introduction.
Speaker B:Like, your goal is to make this.
Speaker B:I think you said grenade.
Speaker B:Yeah, Conversation grenade.
Speaker C:Conversation grenade.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you mentioned that.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I think that as financial planners, we sometimes have to.
Speaker B:It's just like a physician or any other profession, we sometimes have to take a step back and look at what we're saying and how we're saying it and remember that our.
Speaker B:We've studied complex things, but clients are hiring us to make them not complex.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:And sometimes trying to convey that, at least for me, sometimes trying to convey that is like, okay, how do I take this back a step?
Speaker B:How do I actually.
Speaker B:Well, a client said to me not too long ago, you just Fisher Price that for me, and I'm so thankful.
Speaker B:And I thought, that's great.
Speaker B:Okay, now what?
Speaker B:Now let me just, like, solidify how I said that, because, you know, she.
Speaker B:She meant it as a compliment.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I was really.
Speaker B:And I took it as one because I thought, all right, if I can do that more often, this is what they need.
Speaker B:And so kind of breaking down all the different topics or sections of the book and thinking, all right, how will I use this particular tool to have these concept conversations with my clients?
Speaker B:But more importantly, how will my clients actually use this when they're trying to communicate something to me that I'm not getting, I'm not understanding.
Speaker B:I think that's really important because if I'm not clearly hearing what it is that they're trying to tell me, then then I'm going to give them advice that I think they want.
Speaker B:Not the act or need, not the actual advice that they need.
Speaker B:So I'm really looking forward to sharing this with many other things, but many other people.
Speaker B:But I even want to go back further in.
Speaker B:Like, the very first one you have in there is Money Equals Feelings.
Speaker B:And if anybody has listened to this podcast, they all know I'm all about feelings.
Speaker B:Like the number of times that I've talked about the relationship between money and feelings and emotion, and that it's all interconnected and all, you know, driven by experiences that we've had in our lives.
Speaker B:There's all of that history that's there.
Speaker B:You were and are a certified financial planner.
Speaker B:You started your career, and I mentioned this in the intro, but you started your career as a saw, as a security guard, right?
Speaker B:So fast forward to you were.
Speaker B:You were working in our profession, and if I recall correctly, you were frustrated in a way that you were trying to explain something to one of your clients and you just picked up a pen and started drawing to try to explain it to them.
Speaker B:And that's sort of how the sketches started for you, Correct?
Speaker C:It's exactly right.
Speaker C:I don't have a. I didn't doodle in high school.
Speaker C:I have no art training, as will be obvious to anybody who looks at the book.
Speaker C:But I do remember sitting across the table having a familiar experience.
Speaker C:And anybody who's given any type of advice, whether you're a doctor, a lawyer, a financial planner about a relatively complex subject, has had this feeling where you're like, you're describing something and you think you're pretty good at describing it and you're just getting blank stares from really smart people.
Speaker C:Like, these were.
Speaker C:I remember who it was.
Speaker C:Er, doctor and technology.
Speaker C:A technical sales engineer.
Speaker C:Like, yeah, technical sales engineer.
Speaker C:Blank stares.
Speaker C:And I remember that almost a sense of.
Speaker C:There was a slight sense, a touch of panic, of like, wait, this topic is really important.
Speaker C:I'm doing my best and I'm just getting blank stars.
Speaker C:What do I do here?
Speaker C:It wasn't the first time it had happened to me, but it was the first time where I sort of caught it.
Speaker C:And out of a.
Speaker C:It's really an act of desperation, I was in a conference room at the firm that I worked for.
Speaker C:I'd never used the whiteboard.
Speaker C:I didn't really even know what was behind those wood panels.
Speaker C:So I busted up with the wood panels.
Speaker C:I was like, no, like this.
Speaker C:And it was like, as I recall, it was, you know, accumulation, like saving into retirement accounts and then turning that to turning the faucet the other way.
Speaker C:So it was just like squares and arrows and circles.
Speaker C:And I just remember though them saying, oh, oh, now I get it.
Speaker C:And that feeling was sort of really, what?
Speaker C:So I tried it again and I tried it again.
Speaker C:And then I remember one time somebody called me and said, that thing you drew on the board in our meeting, will you put it on a piece of paper and fax it to me?
Speaker C:This was back then, fax it to me so I can show my spouse.
Speaker C:And when I saw it, and maybe it was scan and email, but I just remember seeing it digitally going out and I was like, oh, I could send this to other people.
Speaker C:And that's kind of how they started.
Speaker B:And in the relationship again, going back to that Money equals feelings, that relationship of, oh, I got it.
Speaker B:Like they felt what you were trying to explain to them.
Speaker B:Would you say that that's a level of peace sort of came over them because they're listening to what you're saying and they're not.
Speaker B:They're trying to understand it.
Speaker B:And when you've, when you brought it to an explanation or a drawing, that actually helped them absorb the visualization.
Speaker B:Helped them absorb the feeling that they got when they walked away from that was like, okay, we understand the direction now.
Speaker C:I think that's the word I would use is understanding or clarity.
Speaker C:Like, and I loved.
Speaker C:And I think the words were like, oh, I get it now.
Speaker C:I also love sometimes like, oh, that makes sense.
Speaker C:Like sense making to me a huge part of the entire thing we're doing here is like trying to make sense of this thing we call money.
Speaker C:And one of the reasons I led with money equals feelings, which just for the listeners, right, like it's the, it's not a very complicated sketch.
Speaker C:It just says money and then an equal sign, feelings.
Speaker C:The reason I led with that one was I was trying to clarify the idea that in order to make sense the sense making process we're going through of our relationship with money, we need to, we need to realize that it is.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:Sure, it's spreadsheets and calculators, sure.
Speaker C:But that's only a teeny part of it.
Speaker C:There's a reason, like you find yourself in a fight after opening the Amex bill, you know, it's not because of a calculator.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like two plus two always equals four, but two plus two never equals envy.
Speaker C:So that's the kind of feelings that we.
Speaker C:That's the kind of feelings I'm pointing to.
Speaker B:So the draft.
Speaker B:So the book, when you sat down to actually wrote right at many of the sketches I've seen in other utilization, you know, throughout.
Speaker B:I mean there's calendars, there's other, other places that I've seen it out on social media.
Speaker B:Was there an organization?
Speaker B:I mean you clearly said, you know, money equals feelings and you started with that for a purpose.
Speaker B:Was there when you sat down to draft this, was there a sense of like this is the journey that I want to take people on to the organization of the sketches?
Speaker C:Yeah, it was something that became an incredibly important and time consuming afterthought.
Speaker C:I hadn't planned on it because I'm, I'm not.
Speaker C:I finally gave myself permission and this was part of the 11 year journey was like I'm not going to write another non fiction advice book that has a, like, that has a, you know, a narrative that follows through like chapter one, chapter two, chapter three.
Speaker C:I, I just like, I remember hearing friends of mine, author friends of mine say they were taking six month book leave.
Speaker C:And I was like, I don't know what I would do.
Speaker C:Like I can't, I can't imagine that kind of.
Speaker C:But what I did love was these really tight.
Speaker C:And I remember saying to my book agent, actually I was like, I can't write.
Speaker C:I remember saying I can't write a Ron Lieber book at the New York Times.
Speaker C:I can't write a Dan Pink book.
Speaker C:And she, after hearing that a couple of times, got really frustrated with me one day and said no one wants that from you.
Speaker C:They want a Carl Richards book.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, what does that mean?
Speaker C:And she said, well, tight, like it's closer.
Speaker C:It's not poetry, but it's closer to a book of poetry than it is to one of those other books.
Speaker C:So I was just like, let's just cobble together a collection of a hundred.
Speaker C:And then there was another one that showed up, so 101.
Speaker C:But then at the end I was like, wait, there's got to be some organization.
Speaker C:And I, and I started working.
Speaker C:It took weeks of thought and organizing and I actually have them, I used to, I have them all as individual slides in a giant PowerPoint.
Speaker C:I mean it's actually keynote because I don't use PowerPoint.
Speaker C:But you know where you can see the contact page where you can see all hundred of them.
Speaker C:Almost as if I.
Speaker C:In this.
Speaker C:In fact, this very wall, this was where I first wrote the Behavior app, the first book.
Speaker C:And we actually taped all of the sketches up on this wall and moved them around.
Speaker C:Well, I did the same thing physically.
Speaker C:Sorry.
Speaker C:Digitally this time.
Speaker C:Spent a lot of time organizing them into these 10 sections and then thinking each.
Speaker C:Even inside the sections, is there an appropriate order?
Speaker C:And there's, you know, look, there's some things that were really hard around.
Speaker C:Like, does this fit under stillness?
Speaker C:Like, what is stillness?
Speaker C:I mean, even that I was excited about.
Speaker C:I was like, can I have one called Clarity?
Speaker C:Can we move from the origin, the first section, all the way to wisdom at the end?
Speaker C:So, yeah, there's a lot of thought that went into every.
Speaker C:Amy, it's just.
Speaker C:I mean, thanks for asking.
Speaker C:Just because I'm in one of the requirements for this book.
Speaker C:There are parts of the past book that I look back on, and I feel like I punted a little bit.
Speaker C:Like, I just sort of, like, had to get something done, and it had to be a certain word count.
Speaker C:This book.
Speaker C:There is not a word that I didn't labor over.
Speaker C:And like, there's now there's some things that I will.
Speaker C:Will probably be like, oh, shoot, I kind of miss that, of course.
Speaker C:But as of right this second, there's not a single thing that I'm not proud of, including the organization.
Speaker C:And that felt really good to me.
Speaker C:And that was kind of the requirement was like, if I'm going to do this, I got to put that level of thought into it.
Speaker B:Well, for the listeners, too, there is 10 sections to this book, Right?
Speaker B:You mentioned a few of them.
Speaker B:Section one is origins.
Speaker B:Section two is mindset.
Speaker B:And I think that it's really important when we're talking about money to get in that mindset.
Speaker B:We spend a lot of time asking people to envision themselves the way that they think they want to be.
Speaker B:And that often takes on a different vision than what they think they ought to be.
Speaker B:So, you know, there's a big difference, right?
Speaker B:So that's section two.
Speaker B:Section three is Clarity.
Speaker B:Section four is action.
Speaker B:A lot of people think that that's where it stops.
Speaker B:Okay, I'm taking action.
Speaker B:That's where it stops.
Speaker B:But you go on to talk about.
Speaker B:There is a section about investing, but it's not the type of investing that a lot of people think it's going to be.
Speaker B:And I'm not going to get into the detail because I want people to actually purchase this and actually dig into it.
Speaker B:And explore it themselves.
Speaker B:But section six is risk.
Speaker B:Seven, you mentioned is stillness.
Speaker B:Eighth is growth.
Speaker B:That to me stood out like, oh, we're going to go from stillness.
Speaker B:That the chance to actually think and be still and then I can grow.
Speaker B:Yeah, that makes sense, right?
Speaker B:And if you think about, like, think about the seasons that we go through, in the winter, things are still, and that allows for the growth to happen in the spring.
Speaker B:So it made real sense to me that growth came after stillness.
Speaker B:And then nine is tomorrow and 10 is wisdom.
Speaker B:And so when I was looking at the sections themselves and the headers or the titles, I should say, of those particular sections, to me it sort of had that path of, you know, of any journey, right, Any process that we go through.
Speaker B:And then you get to start all over and remind yourself that money equals feeling.
Speaker B:Like if you started, if you go all the way back to the beginning and even the final attitude of gratitude, like that.
Speaker B:I don't know if that's the one that you added at the end.
Speaker B:Like, that's what made it 101.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But even having that for your final thought in the book.
Speaker B:And when I mentioned earlier that you close the book and you think, wow, that was really.
Speaker B:That was really delicious.
Speaker B:You get to go all the way back to the beginning and say, ah, but money equals feelings.
Speaker B:And the two interconnect, in my opinion.
Speaker B:The two interconnect.
Speaker B:The way it ends and the way it begins.
Speaker B:Is that the.
Speaker B:Like, was that the one that actually was the extra one that showed up or was there one somewhere in the middle?
Speaker C:No, it was that one.
Speaker C:It was the sketch.
Speaker C:I was trying to basically thank the reader.
Speaker C:And then I realized, well, let's make it really useful too.
Speaker C:And so there was a lot of conversation.
Speaker C:I'm really grateful to the editorial team that went on this journey with me because there was a lot of conversation about, I'm not sure this is personal finance.
Speaker C:And a lot of like, oh, okay, I see that.
Speaker C:I see that.
Speaker C:Like, not a rigid view.
Speaker C:And that happened at the times too.
Speaker C:Like, it happened pretty quickly that I was sort of like, you know, I had left my lane, you know, in the.
Speaker C:Your money section, personal finance section, and.
Speaker C:And writing about taking cold showers or something.
Speaker C:They were like, what is this?
Speaker C:So I was really grateful.
Speaker C:And even the organization, they let me, normally there's a bunch of front matter, you flip through two or three pages of copyright and that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:And I was like, hey, in service of the reader, can we go straight to the table of contents?
Speaker C:And they let Me move the.
Speaker C:What's called the front matter to the back of the book.
Speaker C:So a lot of that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that journey.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker C:I actually really like stillness coming after risk because there's an element of, like, dealing with risk and uncertainty can be a little tiring.
Speaker C:I need a break, you know, like, I need to process.
Speaker C:We have a new hunting gun dog, a bird dog, and I took her to training a couple days ago.
Speaker C:She's five months old, where she got introduced to live birds for the first time, like, you know, pheasants and quail.
Speaker C:And after she was done with her run through the field, which was like a half an hour with people telling her a lot of things, and the head trainer there said, okay, now go put her back in the.
Speaker C:In her kennel.
Speaker C:Leave the back of the truck open so she can see the field, and she'll just process.
Speaker C:I was like, that's so interesting.
Speaker C:And she did.
Speaker C:She sat in the back of their kennel.
Speaker C:She watched the other.
Speaker C:The big dogs run around.
Speaker C:And I think there's something about the idea of, like, hey, can we take a break and process?
Speaker C:Can we put ourselves in a situation where we're safe and comfortable, we know the environment, and can we process?
Speaker C:And I like that idea of, like, after exposure, after risk, risk after movement, process.
Speaker C:So, yeah, there's lots of.
Speaker C:Lots of things that went on in thinking about this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, it's, like I said, it's a great book.
Speaker B:In my opinion.
Speaker B:It's going to be one that we definitely use at our firm to have conversations with clients.
Speaker B:Risk is actually an area, and worrying about risk is actually an area that a lot of.
Speaker B:A lot of clients that we work with have a tendency to come with concerns.
Speaker B:I wouldn't say they come with the idea of risk.
Speaker B:They come with the concern of fear and the risks that come along with, you know, the fears that they're having to be able to pull some of these out and say, okay, let's.
Speaker B:Let's think about this in this particular way or that particular way, you know, have a conversation with them.
Speaker B:So we're very much looking forward to having this not only as a reference for us to work with clients, but to give to clients, too.
Speaker B:So super, super charged up about that.
Speaker B:It's not often that there's many books that I would be willing to actually say to clients.
Speaker B:Here, read this.
Speaker B:You know, because it's.
Speaker B:You get lost in the language.
Speaker B:And there are some really good authors out there that I really respect that are finance authors, but you get lost in the minutia of the language.
Speaker B:And a lot of these are very short and to the point.
Speaker B:Like you said, it's almost like reading a book of poetry.
Speaker B:You read something and then you get to think about what the words are and you have the image that goes along with it.
Speaker B:So we're very excited about it.
Speaker B:I haven't shared the actual book, obviously, with the team yet, but I've told them that we're ordering some and that they're going to have some to be able to thank you, to utilize as part of our practice.
Speaker B:If there's one thing, and this is a really hard question to ask, but maybe answer.
Speaker B:But if there was one thing that you could point to and you say, this was success for me, like, all of the work that I've gone through, this whole journey that I went through is success for me.
Speaker B:What would it.
Speaker B:What would it be?
Speaker B:What would it look like?
Speaker C:You mean specifically about what I hope the book does, or something in the book?
Speaker B:Both.
Speaker C:Okay, well, thanks for.
Speaker C:Because that's great.
Speaker C:I'd love to answer both.
Speaker C:So there's one line.
Speaker C:It's quite.
Speaker C:I mean, there's.
Speaker C:Again, I worked a lot of.
Speaker C:This is 25 years of work.
Speaker C:Like, there are lines in here that I have thought about for a decade, and I've changed one word.
Speaker C:Like, I.
Speaker C:Like, I've been like, for a decade, it's been like a sliver just underneath the skin that I didn't know was there.
Speaker C:I was sort of like, like.
Speaker C:Or a piece of.
Speaker C:Just a smallest piece of sand in your shoe, you know, that you're not quite aware of, but you're like, something is annoying me about that.
Speaker C:Like, there are.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker C:There's decade long, single word changes.
Speaker C:But there's one sentence in the book, and it's in.
Speaker C:When.
Speaker C:It's in the essay, when your values collide.
Speaker C:And there's one sentence because.
Speaker C:And this came up in a really.
Speaker C:Excuse me.
Speaker C:A really meaningful conversation.
Speaker C:I had this last couple of days.
Speaker C:We were on vacation with our kids up in the mountains in Idaho.
Speaker C:And on the drive home, we had this really, really meaningful conversation with my two.
Speaker C:With two of my daughters and my wife about money.
Speaker C:And it was a conversation that I wanted to check out of.
Speaker C:Like, a couple of times.
Speaker C:I felt myself being like, I'm gonna pull over on the side of the road.
Speaker C:I'm gonna get out.
Speaker C:Like, we were driving to a hike.
Speaker C:I'm like, I'll start the hike early.
Speaker C:You guys go on.
Speaker C:And I managed to stay in there.
Speaker C:And so did.
Speaker C:So did my daughters and my wife.
Speaker C:Because we were talking about the tension that comes from an infinite set of possibilities and a finite set of resources that is just always going to be true for almost all of us, right?
Speaker C:So there's always going to be this trade off.
Speaker C:And the idea of we often, we think resolving that tension is the goal.
Speaker C:And I've really been working on this idea that like, no, maybe the tension is the thing, right?
Speaker C:That we actually are going to never resolve it.
Speaker C:Because I was just like, if we just get here, the tension will be resolved.
Speaker C:Well, if you do that for, if you get old enough, you realize, like, wait, I've been saying there's always a one time expense.
Speaker C:There's always an emergency, there's always this.
Speaker C:So there's one line in When Values Collide because I was thinking a lot about we love adventure and we, you know, we moved to New Zealand for four years because of it and then to London and, And man, I crave stability.
Speaker C:Like I've planted stuff in my yard that for the now, the second summer, two summers ago, it's growing, you know what I mean?
Speaker C:And I want to leave tomorrow to go to Africa, you know, like, that's tension, present and future tension and learning to live in the tension.
Speaker C:So I was working really hard on that idea.
Speaker C:And there's this one line in When Values Collide that I'm just.
Speaker C:It's been.
Speaker C:So anyways, super valuable for me.
Speaker C:Maybe I'm drinking my own whiskey.
Speaker C:But here's what the line is.
Speaker C:Your values are not at war, they're in conversation.
Speaker C:And I like that experience I had in the car.
Speaker C:There was a war internally, sort of like.
Speaker C:And then I was like, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, stay in it.
Speaker C:This is a conversation between two things that you care deeply about.
Speaker C:And what was coming up for me just to not leave anybody hanging was the idea of like, I was also feeling this immense pressure, self imposed, completely self imposed, around providing.
Speaker C:Like my daughters want these experiences and I can't provide them.
Speaker C:And I thought that was going to be a terribly shameful thing.
Speaker C:So I asked and they were like, no, not at all.
Speaker C:Like, we, like, we know and we're proud of you and mom for saying, for having boundaries around edges.
Speaker C:Like, we need more of that.
Speaker C:So it was really, that, that was really impactful is.
Speaker C:So that's one line I'm super proud of.
Speaker C:And then in terms of hopes, and this is just a humble little goal of I, I just want to lower the global anxiety around our Relationship with money.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, help us all make a little more sense, a little more meaning.
Speaker C:Meaning making.
Speaker C:And I don't know how to measure that.
Speaker C:I've had this weird little goal of a million conversations, but I have no idea how that would ever be measured.
Speaker C:So the real goal is back to where we started, like, if there could be a family, if there could be another family on the way home from an adventure with their kids that has a conversation that could end in war and instead stays in conversation.
Speaker C:That's my hope.
Speaker B:Well, that is a fantastic mission, I think, for many of the listeners to sort of absorb, because if, if they, if they're having difficulty having conversations with their spouses, with their parents, with themselves even, because you, you said it when you were just talking about, you're having a war with yourself.
Speaker B:So we're all, we're often, and I'm certainly guilty of this, we're often our biggest barriers, we're often our biggest enemies when it comes to some of the things that we have in our own head, like we need to get it out of the way and, and, you know, and having many conversations with you that the what if, what if you don't do that?
Speaker B:Or what if you do do that?
Speaker B:You know, what if, what if.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I was thinking about that in closing.
Speaker B:I was thinking, what if you didn't do this?
Speaker B:You know, what if, what if you had decided, nope, you know, I'm not going to do this book.
Speaker B:But what if you did?
Speaker B:And what if that one conversation as a result of somebody listening to this podcast, even, what if that one conversation takes place, then you've met or exceeded the one goal that you're trying to achieve.
Speaker B:So I would say to listeners, if this prompts you to have a conversation, then go out to the website, provide the feedback that you had a conversation that was sparked because of this conversation.
Speaker B:Of course I'm going to say buy the book because there's so many nuggets like this that's in there.
Speaker B:And if you are a client of Rooted Planning Group, you're actually going to get one, so you don't have to go buy one.
Speaker B:But if you're listening to this podcast and you want to learn more, we're going to have all the links in there for where you can go get your, your own copy.
Speaker B:And we, I would strongly encourage you, if this, if you're on a journey with money, if you're on a journey in life and you're trying to figure out how the finances engage with your life, the money engages with your life.
Speaker B:I would say this is a completely different kind of finance related book that you will, that you will love.
Speaker B:Just picking up and reading a couple of pages, digesting it just a little bit.
Speaker B:Circle your favorite dog, tag it like, highlight like.
Speaker B:This is a, this is one of those books that you have a. I think it's a.
Speaker B:One of your poem books that I've seen before that's like dog tagged.
Speaker B:It is well worn.
Speaker B:David White.
Speaker B:Yeah, so worn.
Speaker B:Clearly it's very meaningful to you and I think this is one of those that's.
Speaker B:That's going to be there in the future that's like that.
Speaker B:So I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time.
Speaker B:I know we went a little over, but taking the time to share your journey for this book, your mission that are go along and the dream of it.
Speaker B:Because I think that's one of the things that if people walk away knowing that Sometimes dreams take 11 years to realize and then when they do, you know, I always joke when people say, oh, it's like an overnight success, I'm like, yeah, 30 years in the making, you know.
Speaker B:But here's a great case of something that took some time, some energy, some thought, but ultimately came to fruition.
Speaker B:And so, you know, just give yourself some grace if you do have that vision and journey in mind that you want to go down.
Speaker B:And again, Carl, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy day and your busy life to share this with us.
Speaker B:We really appreciate it, Amy, really, honestly.
Speaker C:There'S nothing I'd rather do.
Speaker C:These conversations are so meaningful for me.
Speaker C:So thank you for taking the time and the.
Speaker C:And the thought you put into it.
Speaker C:I do a lot of these and it's very obvious when people have invested a little bit of thought and I'm just humbled and honored by it all each time.
Speaker C:So thank you.
Speaker B:Thanks for listening to Money Roots until next time.
Speaker A:Keep your finances grounded and your future growing sa.
