Unbox Your Retirement: Balancing Learning, Work, and Leisure
About the Guest(s):
Amy Irvine is the host of the podcast "Money Roots" and is a seasoned expert specializing in financial planning. Amy is known for her down-to-earth approach, making money conversations relatable and rooted in personal goals. Her expertise lies in designing a fulfilling financial life, especially focusing on retirement planning that aligns with one’s personal and emotional well-being. With a mission to educate and simplify complex financial topics, she aims to empower individuals to take control of their financial future.
Episode Summary:
In this insightful episode of Money Roots, Amy Irvine delves into the intricacies of designing a fulfilling and meaningful life in retirement. Through an exploration of the traditional life phases of education, work, and retirement, Amy challenges listeners to think outside the box and consider a more integrated approach to their life's journey. Rooted in her financial expertise, she emphasizes the importance of lifelong learning, balanced living, and finding personal fulfillment beyond traditional career achievements.
Throughout the episode, Amy highlights the essential need for continuous learning, meaningful work, and rewarding leisure activities, promoting a holistic approach to retirement preparation. She references Richard Bowles's concept of the 'three boxes of life' and incorporates insights from Dr. Phyllis Moen of the Cornell Retirement and Well-being Study. This discussion encourages listeners to unbox their lives, balancing different facets such as intellectual pursuits, work passion, and leisure activities that resonate personally, thus crafting a retirement that is both satisfying and joyous.
Key Takeaways:
- Lifelong Learning: Retirement should be viewed as an opportunity for continued learning and personal growth, rather than a mere cessation of work.
- Unboxing Life: Traditional phases of education, work, and retirement can be more fulfilling when integrated and balanced throughout life.
- Personal Fulfillment: It's crucial to engage in activities during retirement that are personally meaningful and joyful, rather than just remaining busy.
- Purpose and Leisure: Retirement offers a unique chance to redefine what leisure means to you, emphasizing activities that feel like a 'mini-vacation.'
- Holistic Planning: Consider all aspects of life, including intellectual, work, and leisure pursuits, to achieve a balanced and rewarding retirement journey.
Notable Quotes:
- "The blessings for which we hunger are not to be found in other places or people."
- "We have to learn to balance learning, work, and leisure in every stage of our lives."
- "For some people, that is an exciting prospect and for others, it's a very frightening one."
- "Make sure the things that you're doing not just in retirement obviously, but right now... are bringing meaning."
- "Retirement planning should be a lifelong regime rather than a later life concession."
Resources:
- Cornell Retirement and Well-being Study: Insights by Dr. Phyllis Moen on planning a fulfilling retirement.
- Richard Bowles's Three Boxes of Life: A framework for understanding life phases.
Tune in to the full episode to delve deeper into Amy Irvine's unique perspective on crafting a fulfilling and balanced retirement. Stay connected for more enriching content on "Money Roots," where we help you keep your finances grounded and your future growing.
Transcript
Foreign this is Money Roots, the podcast where Amy Irvine and her team keep money conversations real, relatable, and rooted in your goals.
Speaker A:Let's grow together.
Speaker A:Hello podcast listeners.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Money Roots.
Speaker A:We are continuing with our series on designing your life in retirement.
Speaker A:I'm Amy Irvine, the host of Money Roots, and we've been doing this series for a couple sessions now, and this one I'm really looking forward to sharing information with you on, because this one is at the core of who we are as people.
Speaker A:In my opinion, it's about meaning when you think about the three boxes that we're often put in in life, yes, we are often put in three boxes.
Speaker A:There's a Richard Bowles describes them as three periods of life.
Speaker A:Getting an education, going to work, and then living in retirement.
Speaker A:His work observed that these periods have become more and more isolated from each other.
Speaker A:Life in each period seems to be conducted without much consciousness or preparation for life for the next period.
Speaker A:High school and college graduates almost universally express that they have learned very little in school to actually help them in their jobs and be successful in their careers.
Speaker A:Yes, they've been given some knowledge, but you know, some of the very basic stuff they or interaction they aren't given.
Speaker A:And I know on our team, I've had people say that to me too, that they feel really knowledgeable and unknowledgeable at the same time.
Speaker A:Likewise, when people are approaching the end of their careers, they kind of realize that they're not really ready for life in retirement.
Speaker A:All the changes that are going to happen, the emotional changes especially.
Speaker A:So these three periods are sort of in that isolation.
Speaker A:And that's why I talk about them being boxes.
Speaker A:I saw a quote by John Donahue that said, the blessings for which we hunger are not to be found in other places or, or people.
Speaker A:These gifts can only be given by yourself.
Speaker A:They are not at home in the hearth of the.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:They are at home in the hearth of your soul.
Speaker A:So I want to read that one more time.
Speaker A:The blessings for which we hunger are not to be found in other places or people.
Speaker A:These gifts can only be given to you by yourself.
Speaker A:They are at home in the heart of your soul.
Speaker A:So when you're stuck in a box, or when you feel like you're stuck in a box, you know, then you don't feel like you can venture outside or draw outside the lines.
Speaker A:As we say.
Speaker A:When we're devoted to learning, what's to say that we're not devoted to learning throughout our whole lifetime?
Speaker A:And what's to Say that we're not devoted to learning something different in retirement.
Speaker A:Could that be considered leisure?
Speaker A:Learning something new?
Speaker A:I certainly hope so.
Speaker A:When I get to the point where I'm not actively working as much in my business, I might take up pottery or something that's completely outside my comfort zone, but it's something completely new that I would be learning.
Speaker A:So instead, you know, we would.
Speaker A:I think we.
Speaker A:When we think about these different phases or different box or periods of our lives, how do we think about balancing some of those things?
Speaker A:How do we live more balanced?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And wouldn't that be kind of a healthier way to live?
Speaker A:Would we feel more satisfied or fulfilled if we don't just say, oh, well, I'm done learning.
Speaker A:I'm just gonna go work, and then I'm done working.
Speaker A:I'm just gonna live in retirement.
Speaker A:What does retirement look like?
Speaker A:And if you've listened to my other podcast, you'll know that I've gotten into the.
Speaker A:Dug into this a little bit more and a little bit more with each session that I'm doing.
Speaker A:But wouldn't we feel more satisfied and fulfilled if we don't box ourselves?
Speaker A:I don't know about you, but whenever I feel boxed into a corner, that's when I start to get really antsy.
Speaker A:And wouldn't that allow us to be better prepared to transition into whatever the next phase of life is?
Speaker A:So as we contemplate these questions, we sort of have to live in the reality of the system, but that does not advance this perspective on planning and living our lives.
Speaker A:So how do we get unboxed?
Speaker A:That's the question.
Speaker A:So we have to learn to balance learning, work, and leisure in every stage of our lives.
Speaker A:Now, I will sit here and tell you that there are certainly periods of my time where periods of my life where it's all about work, and there are certainly periods of time that I'm trying to make more about leisure.
Speaker A:And there are other periods of time that I'm trying to carve out learning.
Speaker A:So for me personally, I have to really work at these three different sort of categories and blend them into my life and use them as experience in my life instead of just using our current stage of life to.
Speaker A:To sort of box us.
Speaker A:You know, it's trying to, like, prepare for that next stage of life, thinking about it in that way.
Speaker A:So there are some, I guess, people out there that have written and done a lot of studies on that, for sure.
Speaker A:In fact, there was Dr. Phyllis Mons, I think is the name, was director of the Cornell retirement and well being studied study.
Speaker A:Her research has led her to conclude that retirement planning should be a lifelong regime rather than a later life concession.
Speaker A:In addition, she encourages individuals to pursue an unconventional life course and to be prepared in developing their own opportunities.
Speaker A:These opportunities are our individual choices in learning, work and leisure activities that make life in retirement satisfying, fulfilling.
Speaker A:All right, so you know all that, but now let's sort of turn the tide on ourselves.
Speaker A:We know it, but we don't do it.
Speaker A:So in retirement, most of us will have more freedom than ever before regarding how we choose to spend our time.
Speaker A:For some people that is an exciting prospect and for others it's a very frightening one.
Speaker A:But for most of us, it is both exciting and frightening, depending on the moment.
Speaker A:What are you going to do with that free time?
Speaker A:For some people that's just too much.
Speaker A:They're not used to it.
Speaker A:Many people think the secret to the happiest retirement is keeping busy.
Speaker A:Well, maybe, but if you've been busy all your life, maybe you want to slow it down.
Speaker A:I will say over the years that I've worked with many retirees, they have said to me, especially in what I call the go go years, I don't know how I had time to work.
Speaker A:But the thing is, they're doing the things that they want.
Speaker A:In fact, you know, I think that's something that's really exciting.
Speaker A:I will say also that when I'm trying to schedule meetings with them sometime, they're more challenging than my clients that are still working because they're out doing the things that they want, prioritizing those kinds of things in life.
Speaker A:And in many cases they're taking the time to work up to getting outside of a comfort zone that they put themselves in one while they were working.
Speaker A:So it's great to keep yourself busy in retirement, but just make sure it's the things you want to do and the activities are bringing you meaningful and fulfilling reward.
Speaker A:And the reason that I stress that is because one of the things that I have witnessed too is where people get over involved.
Speaker A:You know, now I have all this time and people are asking me to do certain things.
Speaker A:And so now I'm over involved and I'm actually not getting the chance to sit back and relax and enjoy my time and read that book that I wanted to read or take a new class that I wanted to take.
Speaker A:I'm going in every which direction that other people want me to go.
Speaker A:So it's important to really make sure that the things that you're doing not just in retirement obviously, but Right now.
Speaker A:But certainly, you know, as you design, what you want things to look like is to make sure that the things that you're doing are bringing meaning.
Speaker A:And of course, that's a really abstract word.
Speaker A:It implies a deeper question, like, what is meaning to me?
Speaker A:And I think that's something that's really, really, really critical.
Speaker A:You have to design that.
Speaker A:You have to look at that.
Speaker A:So you have to look at those three boxes of life, you know, and say, what is important to me?
Speaker A:Certainly learning might be, work might be.
Speaker A:You know, I've talked to a lot of people that want to phase into retirement because their work brings them great pleasure.
Speaker A:They just want to work less.
Speaker A:What kind of leisurely activities do they like to do?
Speaker A:Do you want to be out hiking a little bit more?
Speaker A:Okay, we'll go out hiking a little bit more.
Speaker A:How do we work that into the system?
Speaker A:How can you start to invest your time and energy so that things are more equitably distributed across these activities that bring you, you know, the joy, I guess, in your life?
Speaker A:So you're learning your work, your leisure.
Speaker A:What kind of time do you think you want to be spending in those directions?
Speaker A:And that's the key to the quiet.
Speaker A:Like, just because you think you want to be spending this amount of time in one direction or another, as you start to actually do it, you might change your mind.
Speaker A:And that's okay.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker A:So one of the documents that I'm going to provide to you, one of the links, is personal insights about my meaningful activities.
Speaker A:So it's just a list of questions.
Speaker A:There's no right or wrong answers here.
Speaker A:Things like, I've always wanted to learn more about when I have free time.
Speaker A:I most enjoy doing what.
Speaker A:What I like most about my current job is what I like least about my current job is when I review my own life story or history, the learning experience that is most meaningful or interesting to me was what.
Speaker A:When I review my own life story or history, the work, paid or volunteer experience that was most meaningful to me or fulfilling to me was what.
Speaker A:And when I review my own life story or history, the leisure experience that is most meaningful or enjoyable to me is what your responses will help prepare you for thinking about your personalized and experience that you want to kind of draw either now, you know, why wait, right?
Speaker A:But definitely in leisure time, when you have more leisure time.
Speaker A:That's one of the problems that I often see.
Speaker A:I know I shouldn't say problems, but one of the challenges that I often see with a lot of my clients is like, what am I going to do with my time?
Speaker A:So let's define what you're going to do with your time.
Speaker A:Now remember, you don't have to stop working necessarily.
Speaker A:If you enjoy your work, then continue to enjoy your work.
Speaker A:That may bring you great intellectual engagement and productivity in your life.
Speaker A:Learning, work and leisure are all three components of facets of life that mean if you read or if you listen to one of the previous podcasts, I talk about the nine facets of life.
Speaker A:Intellectual, productive and leisure.
Speaker A:Recreation.
Speaker A:These three components can be thought of as the doing facet because they reflect the activities that will frame design and I guess define your life and retirement.
Speaker A:These are the activities that will structure your time, will give you your life sense of purpose.
Speaker A:Your pursuit in learning, work and leisure will also all overlap and influence your goals.
Speaker A:And the other six facets of life, Healthcare and personal fitness.
Speaker A:Close relationships, Community and social relationships.
Speaker A:Home and location.
Speaker A:Personal, personal growth and well being.
Speaker A:So if you don't know what I'm talking about, maybe you missed one of the podcasts.
Speaker A:Go back and listen to the one where I talk about those nine facets of life.
Speaker A:And remember that lifelong learning is not only possible, it kind of is essential to your quality of life.
Speaker A:So, you know, it's important to continue.
Speaker A:I guess if you want to say you're keeping your mind working that old use it or lose it thought.
Speaker A:And I know for some people when they're out of the workforce for, for a certain period of time in an area that they specialize in, it takes them a bit more to kind of get back into the swing of things to get the knowledge back up to speed.
Speaker A:And it's true about, you know, your brain is a muscle just like your other muscles are in your body.
Speaker A:And so regular physical exercise, strong social support system and belief in one's ability to handle things are absolutely part of what we need to bring into consideration when we're thinking about learning.
Speaker A:Another key part of it is an article that was done.
Speaker A: It's a bit old now, but it's: Speaker A:Baby boomers look towards retirement indicate that more than 80% of the generation believe that they will continue to work in retirement.
Speaker A: mer generation because that's: Speaker A:You know, even the action folks that are starting to get close to that.
Speaker A:What work, what defines work might be different than what they're currently doing.
Speaker A:But there's something that they enjoy in some sort of work and leisure should be thought of our playtime, that's what we do just for the fun of it.
Speaker A:Playfulness brings a light heartedness to things in life.
Speaker A:And it's just this is what I like to do for leisure.
Speaker A:Now leisure can be very, very different for every single person.
Speaker A:So what somebod thinks is leisure, other people might think it's not leisure.
Speaker A:For example, I think of leisure is going out for a long hike.
Speaker A:I mean a long hike, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 miles.
Speaker A:That's what I think of as leisure.
Speaker A:I really enjoy that somebody else might look at that and say, I'd rather just sit on a beach and read a book.
Speaker A:Perfectly fine.
Speaker A:What my leisure is is not going to be what your leisure is.
Speaker A:But the questions that you can ask is, am I having fun?
Speaker A:And after I have spent time in this activity, do I feel like I had been on a mini vacation?
Speaker A:I mean that I think says a lot.
Speaker A:And when I have free time and no one else is influencing me, is this the activity I would choose?
Speaker A:So those three questions can tell you whether or not this leisure is certainly something that I guess you want to say brings you a great amount of joy.
Speaker A:So just think back when traditionally there were three periods of life.
Speaker A:Getting an education, going to work, living in retirement.
Speaker A:The first period is devoted to learning, the second period is devoted to working and the third period is devoted to leisure.
Speaker A:They can be blended.
Speaker A:These periods have come, have become more and more isolated.
Speaker A:But let's talk about un, isolating, unboxing them, bringing them together during our working lives and fulfillment and retirement.
Speaker A:And also remember that keeping busy.
Speaker A:I've done this myself.
Speaker A:I'm so busy.
Speaker A:I'm so busy.
Speaker A:I'm so busy.
Speaker A:It keeping busy is a fine idea for retirement provided you are doing what you want to be doing.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So, and that's true in life.
Speaker A:I mean, yes, we, you know, are busy because we're trying to manage multiple components in our lives.
Speaker A:Maybe it's children and parents and work and you know, we want to fill in some spare time with our own leisure things.
Speaker A:But make sure that at least a portion of this is very fulfilling and you know, make sure that you've taken that time to actually identify what is meaningful to you, to explore ways to invest your time and energy equitably among these activities.
Speaker A:So I'm going to upload the learning worksheet or the worksheets that I mentioned so that you can do some little bit of time on your own.
Speaker A:Some reflective thinking and hopefully this podcast will get you moving in the direction of what brings you meaning.
Speaker A:And then next time we are going to be talking about wealth but wealth in a different way maybe than what you're thinking of.
Speaker A:So stay tuned for the next episode.
Speaker A:We hope you tune in as I share a little bit more about the defining true wealth to you.
Speaker A:Thanks everyone for listening.
Speaker A:If there's anything that you'd like to hear more of or you have some suggestions for this podcast, please let us know.
Speaker A:We want to continue to provide you information that is necessary for you to build your life and in this particular series, defining and designing your life and retirement.
Speaker A:But that's not the only thing we talk about and we'd love to hear.
Speaker A:If you want to hear a particular topic, we'll be glad to dive into it.
Speaker A:Thanks everyone.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening to Money Roots.
Speaker A:Until next time, keep your finances grounded and your future growing.
Speaker A:Sam.
