Healing Your Relationship with Money: A Conversation with Jaelyn Vickery
About the Guest(s):
Jaelyn Vickery is the founder of Dimensional Wealth, and the host of the F3 podcast, which stands for Financial Fitness Finesse. She is a licensed clinical therapist as well as a renowned financial therapist. Jaelyn has excelled in connecting the sometimes-complicated dots between food and finance, with a particular focus on consumer psychology. With a background as a collegiate athlete, Jaelyn combines her experiences in mental health and financial management to help clients explore their consumption patterns and emotional relationships with money. Her passion includes guiding people through the ‘C3 Cycle’—compulsion, consumption, and control—a method she developed to help individuals navigate their financial and emotional landscapes.
Episode Summary:
Dive into an enriching conversation on Money Roots with Amy Irvine as she talks with Jaelyn Vickery, a multi-faceted expert in the field of financial therapy and mental health. As a founder of Dimensional Wealth, Jaelyn enlightens listeners on the intriguing intersection between food and finance, and how consumer psychology plays a crucial role in daily decision-making. With insights into both individual and collective financial behaviors, this episode will spark revelations on how listeners perceive and interact with money in their lives.
Jaelyn Vickery delves into key aspects of her methodologies such as the ‘5 Reps to Wealth’ to help achieve total well-being. Her approach incorporates the various dimensions of wellness, using them as tools to manage both financial and emotional challenges efficiently. From the importance of pausing to assess personal goals to understanding how emotions translate into financial decisions, this episode is packed with insights. Learn how the principles of financial therapy can support healthier money habits and emotional stability in culturally driven consumer societies.
Key Takeaways:
- Connection Between Food and Finance: Jaelyn draws parallels between food and finance, shedding light on how both aid in hitting pleasure points and are deeply embedded in survival instincts.
- 5 Reps to Wealth Framework: This model incorporates eight dimensions of wellness, helping to create balance and abundance in one's personal and professional life.
- C3 Cycle: Understand the compulsion, consumption, and control cycle, which aids individuals in recognizing and transforming unhelpful consumption habits.
- Enoughism: Addresses the perpetual chase for more, illustrating the importance of defining ‘enough’ in personal and professional contexts.
- Therapeutic Collaboration: Discusses the synergy between financial therapists and advisors in addressing emotional and financial health.
Notable Quotes:
- "Money is just emotions disguised as numbers."
- "Too often, we achieve so much on paper, but realize so many aspects of our lives have diminished."
- "Life is not basic... the human experience is abundant and beautiful."
- "What is right is actually within your own control of design."
- "Working with me, you'll learn how to find those moments of pause very quickly."
Resources:
- Jaelyn Vickery's Website: JVIC.com - Find services, resources, and contact information.
- F3 Podcast - Hosted by Jaelyn, available wherever you get your podcasts.
- Dimensional Wealth - Visit the company's site to learn more about their offerings
Listen to the full episode to gain exclusive insights into establishing a balanced and wealthy life by intertwining emotional well-being with financial stability. Stay tuned for more enlightening discussions on the Money Roots podcast.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:This is Money Roots, the podcast where Amy Irvine and her team keep money conversations real, relatable, and rooted in your goals.
Speaker A:Let's grow together.
Speaker A:Welcome Money Roots listeners.
Speaker A:Today I have a super, super special special guest joining me for this podcast.
Speaker A:Some of you over the last few weeks have noticed that, you know, I'm kind of interchanging both the.
Speaker A:The idea behind retirement and the different vision of retirement, as well as interviewing some fantastic people in the financial therapy world or a different sort of a different route.
Speaker A:And today I have Jalen Vickery, who has a couple of special, I will say, talents associated with her.
Speaker A:She and I met at a financial planning conference in June, and I cannot believe, as we're recording is the end of August.
Speaker A:And it does not feel like the end of June was like that long ago, but it was actually the beginning of June that we chatted.
Speaker A:And so she and I met there.
Speaker A:We got chatting.
Speaker A:One of one of Jalen's specialties is around food, the connection between food and finance and specifically consumerism, psychology.
Speaker A:So we're going to dig into a little bit of that.
Speaker A:She is the founder of Dimensional Wealth.
Speaker A:She has her own fantastic podcast called F3 so Financial Fitness Finesse.
Speaker A:She is a licensed clinical therapist as well as a financial therapist.
Speaker A:And so I think this is just going to be a great conversation.
Speaker A:We're going to dig into a couple different topics.
Speaker A:The really cool thing about being a financial therapist in my mind is the fact that you can take clients across all of the states, where if you're talking about the licensed clinical side, you're limited to the state license that you hold.
Speaker A:And so, Jalen, I just want to say welcome to the show.
Speaker A:I've been waiting for this.
Speaker A:I've been so excited about this recording and I'm so thrilled to have you here.
Speaker B:Thank you, Amy.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker B:We always exchange such good energy in the handful of interactions we've had.
Speaker B:So I'm anticipating this conversation in the best way.
Speaker A:Well, that is a thrill to me and I hope the listeners get as much of, you know, the energy that we tend to exchange between us.
Speaker A:I hope they feel that vibe.
Speaker A:I have to admit, like, one of the times I was talking to Jaylen, this was soon after my dad was in the hospital, and there was a whole lot that was going on.
Speaker A:And one of the best questions, like, it just made me pause for a moment.
Speaker A:When we first started talking, you said, where is your energy today?
Speaker A:And it was in that moment that I was like, oh, it's in the crapper, like, for lack of a better term, like now that you asked me that question, like, holy cow.
Speaker A:I really.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's not great, you know, and we were able, like just that question and allowed me to be so honest when I was having the conversation with you, like, I wasn't showing up in the way that I normally show up because, because all of my energy was being directed towards this family crisis that was happening.
Speaker A:And the more we talked, the more my normal energy kind of came out.
Speaker A:But it was if, if you'd never met me, I mean, if you didn't know me that well and, and had never met me before, asking that question really, really does lay the groundwork for what the, what's going on in somebody's right now state.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:What's happening in their, their world, this moment in time.
Speaker A:And, and how do you get a little bit deeper with them when they are being pulled like I was being pulled that particular day?
Speaker A:How do you get them to sort of circle back around to what the topic of conversation is and, and let the what's going on, Let the energy be where it needs to be, but also bring, you know, different, different perspective to the conversation.
Speaker A:So let's focus on you today.
Speaker A:Why don't you start by giving us a little bit of background.
Speaker A:You know, there's always a story behind somebody's journey and I would love for you to share how you decided maybe to become first of all a licensed therapist and then secondly, how you then started exploring financial therapy and how that has then grown on the food and finance connection.
Speaker B:Yes, I appreciate that question, Amy.
Speaker B:And I just want to acknowledge that I hear you and I'll honestly fold in that experience between the two of us about just checking in about, you know, instead of the typical, how are you folding in?
Speaker B:How's your energy to bring in that intentionality and all authentic presence that can be lacking so often in many of our interactions while also honoring the current state of being that we may be presenting ourselves at any given moment.
Speaker B:And that correlates directly into the work that I do now.
Speaker B:And what led me to becoming a therapist, a financial therapist specifically.
Speaker B:Specifically starting points.
Speaker B:Honestly, I have to admit I am that person who became a therapist to better understand their own mind.
Speaker B:I grew up in a thankfully, but also challenging, very high achieving family.
Speaker B:So expectations were always like up there.
Speaker B:I grew up an athlete, played collegiate athletics in the Big ten.
Speaker B:So there was always that element of success on paper, but not necessarily content and fulfillment internally.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:And it made me feel like something was almost wrong with me in a way.
Speaker B:The terminology I use is being blessed but still depressed.
Speaker B:So that sent me down a pretty intense journey of denying the challenges to my mental health to a transformation into actually exploring the connection between my mental health and life satisfaction.
Speaker B:So I was always on the therapy track.
Speaker B:I mean, when I first went to college, I was actually a dietetics major, but when I realized I wasn't interested in the chemistry of broccoli, I pivoted to psychology and then, you know, continued on and got my master's degree in social work.
Speaker B:And between, actually during college, I came face to face with my financial health for the first time.
Speaker B:I was blessed to work very hard and have pretty much all my needs met as a student athlete with that scholarship and academic scholarships.
Speaker B:But when I was graduating from undergraduate, all of a sudden I was like, wait, this scholarship money isn't coming in.
Speaker B:I have X amount of money in my bank account and X amount of money due at the end of the month for rent.
Speaker B:So I had to jump right into figuring out how this whole personal finance thing works that led me into working in banking for a year and a half during the end of my college years and then moving into graduate school.
Speaker B:And that was such a transformative experience because I realized, Amy, I have a very natural ability at de escalating very intense money conversations.
Speaker B:And that people of all generations are extremely, I don't want to say extremely.
Speaker B:People of all generations have different levels of financial insecurity, whether it's in the actual money in their bank account or internally in regards to their capability mindset to handle and work with their money.
Speaker B:And I was on the track to become a therapist at that point.
Speaker B:But that's when I realized, wait a second, Money is probably a huge driver of our behaviors and emotions.
Speaker B:And that led me to a whole, whole new world of financial therapy and just like minded individuals that I'm thankful to be connected with, such as yourself, that led me to where I am today.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, and you're right, it's, it's very connected.
Speaker A:I mean, the studies that have been done that show that, you know, money and for those that are listening and not watching the video.
Speaker A:But money and emotion are connected like this, right?
Speaker A:I mean, they're just tight.
Speaker A:And you know, I, I work with clients that are multimillionaires and they're still afraid just spend money like, you know, and, and, and there's that judgment side from both angles.
Speaker A:There's the judgment side of like, you're spending too much money trying to keep up with the Joneses.
Speaker A:And then there's the other judgment side of why would you ever be worried about money?
Speaker A:It you are.
Speaker A:Like that's, let's just say, like that is an issue that comes up in people because of deep rooted reasons.
Speaker A:And it shouldn't just be poo pooed that, you know, you shouldn't have to worry about money or you shouldn't spend money.
Speaker A:There's that we talked about this both at the conference and then when you and I were talking last time that word should and how it comes up so often.
Speaker A:And you know, I joked and said, oh, I'm so sick of people shooting on themselves.
Speaker A:You know, like, that's a horrible, horrible way to treat ourselves.
Speaker A:Like, you know, that's just not, that's, that's not a way that we should be thinking about things in general.
Speaker A:And so you had all of this background, you started to realize yourself it is a skill set to de, escalate money conversations.
Speaker A:It's definitely a skill set.
Speaker A:So you realize that this was an area that you could specialize in.
Speaker A:And so now you've started to build out your company that is really working more on that particular component than the clinical component.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I mean that's, that's where you're looking to grow.
Speaker A:Tell me about, this is going to be so fascinating, but tell me about the connection between food and finance.
Speaker B:I appreciate that question and I, I was about to dive right into that.
Speaker B:So we're on the same page, Amy, because as you were talking about the connection between money and emotions, right.
Speaker B:Money is just emotions disguised as numbers.
Speaker B:And money is also core to our survival instincts as human beings.
Speaker B:I mean, it's a resource and it's, it's changed over the evolution of time.
Speaker B:But in the period that we live in, money is the key that opens up the door to whatever we may need, whether it's basic needs or big wants that we have in our day to day.
Speaker B:Now, there are two things that we interact with daily, can't live without, and often struggle with the most, and that is food and finance.
Speaker B:It's food and money.
Speaker B:And it's also the thing that a lot of people do not want to really talk about or address that they struggle with.
Speaker B:I mean, how often, Amy, do you come across someone who's like, well, besides us being in the work we do as financial therapists, but with your personal relationships, some of the people you're close us with, it's pretty rare for you to come out and say, hey, I'm really struggling with money right now and much less.
Speaker B:Hey, I'm really struggling with food right now and there's so many different avenues that can go.
Speaker B:It can either be food scarcity, it can be struggling with food in regards to a lot of judgment and shame in regards to your intake.
Speaker B:There can be a lot of struggles around using food to get those quick hits of those pleasure chemicals in our brain that can just help us forget what's happening in our day to day.
Speaker B:It's a source of relief, just like money is a source of relief.
Speaker B:And so food and finance, if not developed and interacted in a way that is healthy to you and that can grow and evolve with you, it can be a really nasty cycle that takes away so much of our time and so much of our energy in the long run.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So that really strong connection.
Speaker A:And sometimes the two are really dancing together.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I mean, sometimes they play off from each other in a really unique way.
Speaker A:And that, you know, think about the ways that we, we reward each other.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, this is, this is a great example.
Speaker A:Like we reward each other by having a glass of wine, having an ice cream cone, going shopping.
Speaker A:Like, these are the ways that we've sort of, our brains have been, we've been taught in a lot of cases that we reward each other, when in reality we could reward each other by just sitting quietly in a corner or going for a walk or a hike or, you know, just having quiet time with family members, with a loved one.
Speaker A:Those could be big rewards too.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And yet our.
Speaker A:I, and, and I'm guilty of this.
Speaker A:So I'm just admitting, you know, like, when I've had, when I've achieved something really big and I'm really excited, I'm like, oh, let's go celebrate with a glass of wine.
Speaker A:Which as long as it's within control is fine.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But it's, it's something that can easily get out of control.
Speaker A:Whether it's.
Speaker A:It could be, like I said, an ice cream cone or it could be, you know, somebody has.
Speaker A:We joke, we joke about people's cravings for like chocolate.
Speaker A:And if you watch any amount of TV here in the United States, my gosh, it's awful how much junk food I was over last fall.
Speaker A:I was over in Scotland in the UK area and they were actually banning any fast food commercials prior to, I think it's 9 o' clock at night.
Speaker A:So there were no.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I mean, these are the things that our culture has sort of, you know, meaning the US culture has sort of you know, created in a certain extent is normal.
Speaker A:But when you're struggling with these kinds of things, whether it's financial or whether it's food or a combination of the two, if you.
Speaker A:If you're struggling with that, where.
Speaker A:Where do you go?
Speaker A:Like, how do you.
Speaker A:Because as a financial.
Speaker A:So myself being a cfp, sometimes people will come to me.
Speaker A:Like, prior to getting the financial therapy designation, people will come to me and I'm like, oh, my gosh, this person's crying.
Speaker A:Like, what do I do?
Speaker A:You know, there's.
Speaker A:There's all this emotion around it, and now there's this real thing.
Speaker A:And this is.
Speaker A:What you do specifically is.
Speaker A:Is like, okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, like, it's okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:To have this emotion around money.
Speaker A:Let's talk about why.
Speaker A:Let's see what things we can do.
Speaker A:So as you've built your practice, and by the way, I listened to your last podcast, which was on Leading With Balance.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, it was so funny because interestingly enough, the last podcast I released, which was around the same time.
Speaker A:Well, yours came out today.
Speaker A:I guess I listened to it this morning.
Speaker A:The last podcast I released was on Not Putting Ourselves in the Box and.
Speaker A:And Leading With Balance.
Speaker A:So I'm like, oh, my gosh, we're even on the same, like, wavelength when we're not talking to each other.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But the idea that.
Speaker A:That we have to approach this part of our lives with balance.
Speaker A:Walk us through.
Speaker A:Not like a, you know, a specific case or anything like that, but maybe walk us through.
Speaker A:If somebody were looking for the work that you're doing, like, this truly resonates that with them.
Speaker A:The conversation we're having resonates with them.
Speaker A:Walk them through a little bit of what it's like to work with somebody like you or me, too, but somebody specifically like you.
Speaker A:You have this really unique aspect of.
Speaker A:Of work that you're doing, and you don't limit yourself to it, but this really unique research.
Speaker A:I mean, like, you've done a ton of research on this, this connection.
Speaker A:Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker B:Yeah, thank you for that.
Speaker B:That question, Amy.
Speaker B:I want to first acknowledge for anybody listening that working with me, or really any professional that you are working with to seek help in understanding yourself.
Speaker B:It's important to make sure that you're working with someone who is not afraid to grow with you and also isn't there to demonize your habits.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Food and money are two things that you're going to interact with every day for the rest of your life.
Speaker B:And there are two things that are meant to support your needs and your wants.
Speaker B:And so working with me, what that's going to look like is gaining clarity and understanding in the consumption cycles that you experience in your life.
Speaker B:Becoming an expert in something that a model I call the C3 cycle.
Speaker B:It starts with a compulsion, consumption and control.
Speaker B:Because we are very cyclical, repetitive and habitual creatures as human beings.
Speaker B:Yet in the hustle culture we live in, we feel like we don't have the time to actually seek understanding and find a moment of pause.
Speaker B:Working with me, I'm going to teach you how to find those moments of pause very quickly.
Speaker B:Just like asking the question, how's your energy?
Speaker B:It's a very brief moment of pause that can cause huge changes.
Speaker B:At dimensional wealth, the focus is helping others build wealth with wellness.
Speaker B:Because too often, Amy, and I'm sure you see it with the high net worth clients you work with, we achieve so much on paper.
Speaker B:We achieve the biggest things that anyone could ever dream of, especially in regards to the zeros at the end of our bank account or the number of zeros in our bank account rather.
Speaker B:We achieve all of that and then we realize so many other aspects of our life that have diminished.
Speaker B:And all those other aspects of life are wealth.
Speaker B:So there are eight dimensions of wealth that we work within.
Speaker B:They're also known as the eight dimensions of wellness that I've done extensive writing and research on with local universities throughout the state of Illinois.
Speaker B:If we are not able to understand that we are the architects of our lives and our wealth, then you're going to stay in that same cyclical pattern that leaves you questioning for years why you can't escape it.
Speaker B:So the ideal client that would work with me is someone who is professional, personally driven, but professionally burnt out.
Speaker B:And that professional burnout leads to even more personal neglect that just really causes us to feel like our life is passing us by rather than being able to maximize each day in regards to our self care and the elevation of all dimensions of wealth.
Speaker B:Because you are not a one dimensional person.
Speaker A:Yeah, so what?
Speaker A:What would the eight dimensions of wellness be?
Speaker B:I'm so happy that you asked.
Speaker B:So through my programming, it's called five reps to wealth.
Speaker B:Five Reps stands for the eight.
Speaker B:Five reps stands for the dimensions of wellness.
Speaker B:To make sure that we have continuity and make sure there's no confusion here.
Speaker B:So 5 reps stands for financial, intellectual, vocational, emotional, relational, environmental, physical and spiritual.
Speaker B:When I tell people about the dimensions of wellness, Amy, sometimes they can get overwhelmed.
Speaker B:Like they're like that is a lot of dimensions And I'm like, yeah, you're feeling overwhelmed.
Speaker B:Welcome to every day of your life.
Speaker B:Because life is not basic.
Speaker B:That's the first thing working with me, I lead with compassionate accountability, and I also lead with something called microdosing momentum.
Speaker B:We're not here for motivation, because if we're going to wait around for motivation, you're going to stay in the exact same place.
Speaker B:The five Reps to Wealth model helps gain those tiny steps of momentum that lead to huge returns on the ways that you want to invest in yourself, in your mind, money, movement, et cetera.
Speaker B:So I just, I hate to see how many people try to put themselves in this box, like, oh, I can only be this one thing.
Speaker B:When you honestly, you don't really have a choice because the human experience is abundant and beautiful.
Speaker B:And at Dimensional wealth, we help you capture that holistic abundance.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, when I was talking about the podcast I did about, you know, taking yourself out of the box, it so resonate with what you're saying, because, you know, for the first time, 18 to 22 years or sometimes longer, depending on what career we go into, we're all about education.
Speaker A:You know, that's the focus.
Speaker A:Educate, educate, educate.
Speaker A:And that then goes into work, work, work, work, work, and then that goes into retire.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So those, if you think of those three box, three boxes, and often in the work, work, work, work, work stage, we're like, oh, when I retire, I'll do this, or when I retire, I'll do this, that.
Speaker A:Oh, when I, you know.
Speaker A:But it's really actually pretty critical to the balance and the wellness of a person to have some of that, even when you're in educational mode, some of that while you're in work mode.
Speaker A:And then, you know, who's to say that you have to stop working when you retire?
Speaker A:You can work in different ways.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You have to define what work means to you at that point in time.
Speaker A:What is the definition of work?
Speaker A:You know, what.
Speaker A:What does that mean to you?
Speaker A:And so when you, when you talk about the different dimensions that, that you named off, do you help people?
Speaker A:Like, you don't define that for them.
Speaker A:You kind of help people define that for what they want it to be.
Speaker A:Is that correct?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, that definitely aligns.
Speaker B:Like I said, five reps to wealth is that blueprint so that people have that empowerment and acceptance and knowledge and how they are designing their lives.
Speaker B:Because so much of our lives is design, even though it feels like there's a written path we're supposed to follow.
Speaker B:Get educated, work, retire, Happily ever after.
Speaker B:Yet there's a lot of people that are like, wait a second.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's a lot of gaps here that I feel like I should have addressed.
Speaker B:That's exactly what the 5 reps to wealth model enables and allows us to do because it is unique for everybody.
Speaker B:The written path is not meant for everybody.
Speaker B:And I've experienced so many people of all different generations, Amy, and especially within myself.
Speaker B:I created the 5 reps model to keep me grounded, regulated, and organized in the things that I am building and pursuing for myself while making sure that my values never get compromised.
Speaker A:Well, that's a big one, isn't it?
Speaker A:Making sure the values don't get compromised.
Speaker A:It's so easy to.
Speaker A:I mean, especially in the workforce.
Speaker A:I've seen it many times.
Speaker A:It's so.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's that you.
Speaker A:As humans, we want to fit.
Speaker A:You know, we want to fit.
Speaker A:And so you start to adopt, for lack of a better word, or mimic the values that are around you sometimes, and you don't necessarily recognize how unhappy that is making you until something breaks you and then you.
Speaker A:You cross a line of, like I say, no return.
Speaker A:It's either change companies, you know, in order to get away from whatever it is, you know, that.
Speaker A:That's just in a work environment, could be a relationship environment, could be whatever.
Speaker A:But I think a lot of, you know, you know how we tell people not to jump from one frying pan to the next, right?
Speaker A:So if you leave a job and then.
Speaker A:And again, guilty as charged here.
Speaker A:Because I think that's why I can talk about it with a lot of people, because I've actually experienced it, because I've actually done it.
Speaker A:Like, I've been unhappy in a company that I was with and didn't feel like the values aligned and, And I just wanted to get out from behind it so badly that I would.
Speaker A:I went to another company and within a very short period of time, like, well, that's just me jumping from one fire, fire frying pan to the next.
Speaker A:You know, I didn't take.
Speaker A:Because you, you mentioned.
Speaker A:I don't know if you use this word or not, but it's what me.
Speaker A:What I thought when you said it was like taking a moment to pause.
Speaker A:So before jumping out of the firing fire pan, frying pan, excuse me, into the next more peaceful environment that you want to go to, you need to pause and work through.
Speaker A:What are you looking for?
Speaker A:Like, how do you eliminate the next frying pan?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Because otherwise it can feel like an aimless search for what is right, when what is right is actually within your own control of design.
Speaker B:And control is a huge word that is so core to the human experience.
Speaker B:It doesn't have to be a bad word.
Speaker B:But what we're missing is that acknowledgement piece.
Speaker B:That's what, that's what living within the 5 reps model, living a dimensionally wealthy life is having that ability and skill set to acknowledge what is within my circle of control.
Speaker B:What can I acknowledge that I have actually done for myself in this situation?
Speaker B:And then how can I, how can I allow the other elements to then come into play when I'm in a regulated state?
Speaker B:Because when we're not able to bring in that form of acknowledgment and connect it with control, that's when we go into those default mode coping mechanisms such as buying things or hey, I deserve this, so let me just keep consuming this thing.
Speaker B:And I mean it's honestly how our consumerism psychology is manipulated by the media.
Speaker B:Hey, look at this commercial.
Speaker B:Someone is very happy eating this thing.
Speaker B:Look how happy they are.
Speaker B:And like sometimes we're thinking like, oh, like that's so cliche like seeing someone that happy buying something or eating that food.
Speaker B:But those are still little doses that go into our, our psyche that do drive behavior.
Speaker B:Like we human psychology is just so interesting because there, there's a statistic, Amy, that has always stuck with me that 80% of our thoughts are naturally negative and 95% tend to be cyclical.
Speaker B:And the reason why a lot of our thoughts are naturally skewed towards negativity is for negativity bias that is aligned with our survival instincts.
Speaker B:Hey, if there's a bear over there and is chasing me, don't go over to that part of the woods.
Speaker B:Like that's like, you know, evolution 101.
Speaker B:But when you bring it into a modern sense, oh, I don't like this feeling of feeling inadequate.
Speaker B:Maybe I should avoid this.
Speaker B:But this makes this feeling go away temporarily.
Speaker B:Oh, I'm not getting enough done today.
Speaker B:I feel like I'm not being productive enough.
Speaker B:Maybe I should just keep working and keep working and avoid actually having to step outside of this and feel like I'm not doing enough.
Speaker B:It leaves us in these chains of debt to others, to productivity.
Speaker B:And it's like everyone knows about the pay yourself first framework, but we don't pay ourselves first in regards to our own self care and acknowledgement.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:So when you, when somebody, I mean excite, this conversation could go on for hours.
Speaker A:I think if somebody is resonating with the things that we're talking about today.
Speaker A:And they're like, you know what?
Speaker A:I think this is the missing component that I didn't realize was missing is the best way for them to go to your website and, you know, kind of like schedule a discovery call with you or what.
Speaker A:What is a good, good way for people to work with, like, get in touch and work with you?
Speaker B:Yeah, I appreciate that question.
Speaker B:So, yeah, if you're someone who's listening and it's been resonating with you that you are ready to build your system for wealth that leads to that holistic abundance and balance that you're looking for, the best place to find me is@JVIC.com There's a list of my services on there, free resources, and a contact page where all you got to do is just submit your information there and I'll get in contact with you.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So we'll have that in the show notes for sure.
Speaker A:So people can reach out.
Speaker A:Now let me ask you one final question.
Speaker A:Your opinion.
Speaker A:What's the difference between working with a financial therapist and working with a financial advisor?
Speaker B:Oh, great question.
Speaker B:Some people in the financial wellness field can be credentialed and experienced in both.
Speaker B:But to answer it just from a broad point of view, a financial therapist is someone who typically has a mental health background and education.
Speaker B:But a financial therapist can also be someone who has experience in finance and.
Speaker B:But has that emotional, behavioral, or trauma informed lens in which our money is impacted by some of our past, present, or potential future occurrences that can impact how we, how we interact with money.
Speaker B:A financial advisor, I would say that someone who works more so with that money side, think, think more numbers, more numbers oriented rather than the psychological, relational, and emotional aspects that a financial therapist can hit, which honestly is what is going to impact any decisions you make with money.
Speaker B:So I always recommend that someone finds a mental health professional or a financial advisor that has experience in working within that financial therapy framework.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And as somebody who practices on the financial planning side of, of the profession, one of the things that I will often say to people, when I noticed.
Speaker A:When I notice that there is, you know, I call it barriers.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So there's barriers to.
Speaker A:When I'm giving recommendations to people, I never, I never say to somebody, you have to implement these recommendations.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:These are just recommendations.
Speaker A:You can pick them, you can choose to implement them, or you can choose to say, this recommendation doesn't fit with my value.
Speaker A:I'm perfectly fine with that.
Speaker A:But if, but if you're, you Know, because that's important.
Speaker A:You need to make sure whatever recommendation I have for you fits with your value.
Speaker A:But if you're somebody who says, I don't know why I won't make that, that change, I don't know why I won't implement that.
Speaker A:It's not that I disagree with it, I don't disagree with it.
Speaker A:I just, I cannot bring myself to actually do it.
Speaker A:That's when I know that there's something, Something.
Speaker A:There's, there's, it's, it's not like the person is intentionally trying to like not do what they need to do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's just that there's a barrier there.
Speaker A:They don't know what that barrier is.
Speaker A:And so that's when you have to pull back exactly the, the onion, if you want to call it, you know, like, all right, where's the layers here?
Speaker A:Like, what's actually happening?
Speaker A:And in our practice, I don't have a lot of time to do the therapy work.
Speaker A:Like, I have the, like having that certified financial therapist designation for me has trained me to recognize when there is the need for the therapy.
Speaker A:And we do approach a lot of things from a standpoint of like the emotion connection.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, so that's always there.
Speaker A:But if somebody actually needs to be digging into the therapy side, and that's when it's great to be able to say, in my opinion, let's work on, let's get you somebody who can work you through the therapy side and then let's pick up from there what you've learned.
Speaker A:And working with somebody who's focusing on the therapy side of things, I can take it from there because now I know what's going on and I can approach the recommendations that I'm giving you with that lens of what your life has been like and what barriers exist for you, but you've actually been able to figure out what they are.
Speaker A:And so now when you say to me, like, let's say you go through the therapy and now you say to me, this is a trigger.
Speaker A:Okay, let's work through that trigger.
Speaker A:That's a whole different conversation than, I don't know why I won't do this.
Speaker A:So there's, there's that con.
Speaker A:Like, that's where the two, I think, work really well together.
Speaker A:And, and I honestly think sometimes it's really nice to have the separation, like have somebody work with somebody who's, whose full time job is like the financial therapy side.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then I can understand the work that they've done and I can pick it up and I can still bring the emotion into the conversation of whatever I recommend and have it connect to the values and, and have those conversations from the work that you've done.
Speaker A:But that's my full time job.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so that's why I think they work really well together.
Speaker A:So when people ask me like, so what is this?
Speaker A:You know, certified financial therapy?
Speaker A:Like, how do you feel it helps clients?
Speaker A:What do you do to help clients?
Speaker A:I'm like, well, the best situation is when a client truly needs financial therapy is for me to have them work with somebody who does that full time for their job and then me to be able to pick it up from there.
Speaker A:Understanding what, understanding where the triggers are for that person and continuing to, to take the ball and run with it with the triggers that they've discovered in the actual planning world.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So that's, I just wanted to spend a little bit of time on that because I think that people sometimes get, we, there's so many designations out there in today's world that I think people get confused about, well, who should I actually be working with?
Speaker A:And I'm not saying that we're 100% right on this.
Speaker A:I'm saying this is my opinion.
Speaker A:You're saying this is your opinion.
Speaker A:But I think that's where I've seen it be successful personally.
Speaker A:How about you?
Speaker B:I, I, I've experienced something similar with actually a lot of my clients.
Speaker B:There is that, that anchor of someone that they work with who has that mental health financial therapist specialty and background to work through ways that they can think, feel, and behave differently about their money.
Speaker B:So then they can go and work with the financial professional like yourself, and then they're able to have more of a collaborative conversation about how to leverage money as a tool rather than being scared or feeling incompetent or overwhelmed or avoidant because they've worked through those things with financial therapy, it expands your options immensely and the ways that we can use our big beautiful brains and our emotions together to define and develop what true meaningful wealth means to us.
Speaker B:So I align very well with where, where you're at and what you have experienced as well, Amy.
Speaker B:And I hope more people take advantage of those types of services together.
Speaker A:Yeah, me too.
Speaker A:I'm hoping that the stigma of the word therapy starts to be eliminated in our culture because, you know, I think it's something that we, you know, if we can do that, work together, it really can make a difference in people's lives.
Speaker A:And sometimes I call it enoughism.
Speaker A:Sometimes people, you know, keep thinking I need more.
Speaker A:I need more, I need more, I need more.
Speaker A:And it goes to something.
Speaker A:When you were talking about your, like, your own journey and you said, you know, you was always pushing it.
Speaker A:Was always pushing it.
Speaker A:It's like you didn't.
Speaker A:You weren't doing it enough.
Speaker A:There's a point in time where you have to think about enoughism, and if there's a barrier there or history there that says it's never enough, well, then you.
Speaker A:The goal line is always going to keep moving.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:So we need to think, you know, what.
Speaker A:Where is it that.
Speaker A:Where are we at in the cycle and what did the, you know, the different dimensions look like?
Speaker A:And then we can say, oh, okay, all right.
Speaker A:You know, I don't have to do what my neighbor does.
Speaker A:I don't have to be.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:I don't even have to be like, my best friend or my brother or my sister.
Speaker A:Like, I get to define that.
Speaker A:And that makes a huge, huge difference.
Speaker A:Huge difference.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Enoughism.
Speaker B:I may need to steal that, because that.
Speaker B:That is framework is how can I acknowledge that I'm enough while still moving forward in the ways that I need to and that my loved ones need me to as well?
Speaker A:So, yeah, we use that.
Speaker A:I've used that a couple of times around, you know, when people get.
Speaker A:Are getting closer to retirement and they're like, so should I work another year?
Speaker A:I'm like, do you want to work another year?
Speaker A:I mean, is there an emotional tie to working another year, or is it that you think you need to?
Speaker A:Well, I'd give all this stuff up.
Speaker A:I'm like, but every year you're going to give all that stuff up.
Speaker A:Do you have enough?
Speaker A:Are you in enoughism?
Speaker A:Like, can you do the things that you want to do if you don't work, if you don't want to give up work, like, don't.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, I'm not saying you should, but I'm saying, like, have you reached enoughism?
Speaker A:And if you have, well, then, yes, you're leaving some money on the table.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But if your plan is still successful and you're happier in life, like, I think it's that defining those dimensions of your life, of wellness, then you might look at that and say, but the leaving that money on the table actually enhances my life because I get to.
Speaker B:Do all these other things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes, you got it, Amy.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So, Jaylen, thank you so much for taking the time today.
Speaker A:I know we went a little bit long.
Speaker A:We usually run about 30 minutes, but this conversation just fascinates the live in daylights out of me so I could talk for hours and hours and hours.
Speaker A:And I hope the listeners got, you know, as much out of it as I always get when I have a conversation with you.
Speaker A:We will put the website on in the show notes so people have it which has, you know, some services.
Speaker A:It has a link to the podcast.
Speaker A:It has a way that you can contact Jalen.
Speaker A:It has some good information about her just in general.
Speaker A:It's got some really beautiful pictures of her out on her website as well.
Speaker A:So we'll put that out there and also put a direct link to the website or, sorry, the podcast, so that people can subscribe and start listening.
Speaker A:So again, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
Speaker A:I really enjoyed our conversation.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're gonna have you on mine too.
Speaker B:So, yeah, Everybody subscribe to F3 as well.
Speaker B:You'll see Amy there soon.
Speaker A:Fantastic.
Speaker A:Thanks, everyone.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening to Money Roots Roots until next time, keep your finances grounded and your future growing.
