To Divorce or Not To Divorce: Moving Gracefully Through Your Journey with Paula Lesso

:: 00:04

0:00:44 - (Amy Irvine): Paula, welcome and looking forward to sharing your journey because you have quite a story to tell. So looking forward to it. But as you know, Paula, one of the things that I always love to start out the podcast with is my second passion, which is wine. Do you have a particular favorite wine.

:: 01:03

0:01:19 - (Amy Irvine): Yeah, certainly the Finger Lakes is known for their rieslings. That's something that they're very well known for throughout the world, starting to make their ways with some of the reds that they're growing here locally. But definitely their rieslings are fairly well known. In fact, I was out in Oregon last year, and they were commenting on the New York rieslings way out from Oregon. Yeah, it was an interesting conversation that we had with some of the winemakers out there.

:: 01:44

0:02:13 - (Amy Irvine): Paula, I would love to open up this podcast today by you being, because you're so kind to share this with me with all of the folks that you work with so that they know that when you're offering the services, you're not just doing it from a place of education, you're actually doing it from a journey that you went on yourself. So if you wouldn't mind kind of giving sort of a high level story journey explanation of how you started your own business, what do you offer for client services and how you got to this point?

:: 02:48

0:03:32 - (Paula Lesso): And it was almost like we were living like roommates. And I set out counseling, and I can picture myself right there that day going, so how do I get the passion back in my marriage? I never wanted the D word to be part of my vocabulary. That was just like and unfortunately, my husband figured out how to solve his problem. Maybe he wasn't happy and felt the passion was gone, but he decided to go a different route and solve his problem.

:: 04:06

0:04:56 - (Paula Lesso): Because I just felt that this was just something happening in my life. And, yeah, there were days that I woe was me. I had the pity party. I cried, why me? All that. And then there was something inside of me that just was like, but you're stronger than this. You've got this. You can go on. There is life beyond marriage or after marriage, right? There's life after divorce. And so with that counseling, which helped me immensely, what I tell people, friends and family are great, but they know everything that happened.

:: 05:42

0:06:02 - (Amy Irvine): Right.

:: 06:03

0:06:08 - (Amy Irvine): Objective person, kind of like you are.

:: 06:10

0:07:21 - (Paula Lesso): And sometimes you want to just curl up on a couch with the pint of hugging dust and watch Hallmark movie or something, right. But it's like, okay, you can have that once. Just don't live it that way. Right? Yeah. So we can get out there and we can forge ahead, because that is just one part of your life, right. Just one piece of your life, a chapter. And there are so many more chapters to live.

:: 07:51

0:08:07 - (Paula Lesso): Yes.

:: 08:08

0:08:31 - (Paula Lesso): Yeah. So the book is what are you waiting for? Today is the best day to start living. That's kind of what it looks like. Yeah. And I had never thought about writing a book, but actually, that picture on the front was on my business cards, and I had two people at two different times say, oh, that's a book cover. Oh, maybe I'm writing a right. And I had a business partner at the time when I lived in Charlote, and I looked at him, and he was another coach. And this is the thing you don't to coaches say, Maybe I might.

:: 09:11

0:09:12 - (Paula Lesso): And he just gave me a look. I go, I'm writing a book. And so then it was just like, okay, now I got my assignment. I'm writing a book.

:: 09:22

0:09:23 - (Paula Lesso): All the things that we wait for in life that we don't take that leap?

:: 09:29

0:09:31 - (Paula Lesso): You want to, but something's holding you back. So it was like, okay, I just.

:: 09:38

0:09:40 - (Paula Lesso): So I asked that question about a lot of things. What's holding you back here? Did you want to ask something? Do you want to do something? What are you waiting for? And so it's neat because it's just little short things and an easy read. So it was there to activate your mind, body, self, talk, resilience everything that you're going through. Right? Yes.

:: 10:09

0:10:22 - (Paula Lesso): Well, the biggest thing for me is helping women through the three H's. So I have the three H's to happiness. It's all about starting with your head, where there are all the drama, the stories. Been there because like I said, I've been through divorce, so I've been there. And we want to get clarity, so I help them get clarity. So then when they come to you, right, and you're asking about finances, they're not filling up the time with everything else.

:: 10:53

0:11:29 - (Paula Lesso): It's the three HS. Happiness is what I help them with. Talk to them, find out where they're at in their process, whether it's thinking about a go no go situation, because a no go is like maybe you're unhappy and you think divorce is the only way out. Maybe it's just you're both unhappy and you have to reconnect. Or it could be ago, we have to go. And then if you're in the process of a divorce, helping you with that.

:: 12:05

0:12:37 - (Amy Irvine): The go no go side of things. I want to take a step back and actually talk a little bit about that because that is a little bit different than a lot of other coaching divorce coaching services I've seen. Because in that situation, you're actually trying to prevent you'd love it if it was a no go, right? I mean, the ideal situation is to talk people through what's going on or coach people through what's going on and have it be a no go outcome.

:: 13:04

0:13:42 - (Amy Irvine): So when people say to me, oh, what's the secret? I'm like, bear through the cycles. I think that it's a long term friendship. It is a long term friendship, but the spark isn't every day it comes and goes. Right. And I think sometimes, realistically, people don't think of it. This is just my opinion, but I don't think you would notice the spark if the spark was there every single day. But it's there enough that you feel still very committed to the relationship, very much in love.

:: 14:22

0:14:59 - (Amy Irvine): I guess the feeling that you said, and not to make this about me as an example, but just to say okay, so I'm the person that if I came to you and know, Paula, it used to be this way, like the way I just explained it to you, but lately it's really tough to get that spark going. And I don't know if it's just does that mean that we're doomed? Or how do we get through that cycle? What do we do to get through that cycle?

:: 15:27

0:15:49 - (Paula Lesso): Sure, that's a great question. First I would ask them, what brought you together? What was it that attracted you, that you're like, yeah, I want to spend the rest of my life with this person. What were those qualities? And I know journal about write it down. If people don't like the word journal.

:: 16:13

0:16:14 - (Paula Lesso): How to, I don't like to journal. Write these things down. Because sometimes seeing it written and you actually write it out is like, oh, my gosh, I've forgotten that. It's so far kind of removed right now that I don't remember. And then also, look at I love this book. The five love languages.

:: 16:39

0:16:40 - (Paula Lesso): Five love languages. That is huge when you think about someone could be the husband, and his love language is different than hers. So he's thinking he's doing the right things, when really he's not. And she's saying, anything. We're not speaking up. So one of my quotes that I developed is, communication is the heart of any relationship, and that could be any relationship. Friends work, especially your significant other.

:: 17:11

0:17:22 - (Amy Irvine): Even after 29 years of marriage, I can do you watch Netflix at all? Do you have a subscription to Netflix? Okay, well, there's a TV show, I guess you want to call it through a series through Netflix called Sweet Magnolias. And one of the characters, Danny Sue Sullivan, is one of the main characters in that, and she and her husband actually go through they went through some counseling, and they talked about those five love languages.

:: 17:50

0:18:30 - (Amy Irvine): You ask them the question about their you talk to them about their five love languages, and you coach them to communicate with each other about these kinds of things. What would be an example? Because I think if they're able to get that communication back to the table and create that spark again, it's a no go situation. But what would be an example of a no go situation?

:: 18:55

0:18:58 - (Amy Irvine): A go situation. My apology. Sorry.

:: 19:00

0:19:52 - (Paula Lesso): And, yeah, you may want what you had, but it's already changed. So if they're having an affair, there's something going on that it might not be repairable. So let's look at all right, if this is a go, what does that mean? And my biggest thing is to help protect the woman, not to settle, which you may have run across that too. Well, I don't want money or I don't want this or that. Be careful what you say, careful what you're wishing for, and take time.

:: 20:29

0:21:03 - (Paula Lesso): Yes, like I said, there's more to life than divorce.

:: 21:10

0:21:41 - (Amy Irvine): And I agree with you. Don't agree to anything. Let's look at everything. And depending on the state that you live in now, Paula, you probably predominantly work with people in New York, but maybe Pennsylvania, because of where you're located. Where I work with people throughout the United States, I have to know whether they're community property state, whether know equitable versus equal state, like, all of that. I have to actually dig into their property equalization and understand the timing of some of that because some states require, like, a year long waiting period, and we have to wait until that divorce is final before we can even separate assets. But it's that kind of discussion.

:: 22:28

0:22:55 - (Amy Irvine): When you plan for a period of time as two household income, family saving, one set of expenses, and all of a sudden now it's one income, separate expenses, you've just technically divvied the income in half and doubled your expenses. That's a huge impact. So I agree with what you're saying. If you discover that it's a go situation and don't commit to anything, let's walk into the financial decision making of a divorce the same way you walked into the coaching decision making, right? Like, okay, let's sit down.

:: 23:38

0:24:18 - (Amy Irvine): So the other big mistake that I commonly see and I shouldn't use the word mistake, that's really not the right terminology that I should use here. But what can be financially negatively impactful is when somebody says, well, I have to have the house because the kids are in the house and they don't realize that there can be a transition period where nobody permanently has the house. Like you can stay in the house for a period of time while the kids are finishing out school or even high school potentially.

:: 24:49

0:25:31 - (Amy Irvine): And from there, the attorneys, usually the ones that I work with, they usually look at everything and do try to split it down the middle. Right? I mean, they don't generally look at the equitable side versus the equal side, right? They just try to split it down the middle. I'm not saying there are some attorneys out there that don't do it that way, but that's been my experience. Have you seen that as well?

:: 25:57

0:26:36 - (Amy Irvine): Of depending on how long you've been married and all that stuff.

:: 26:40

0:27:30 - (Paula Lesso): So it's like, okay, with you, it's financial. And for me, it's like, okay, think about these other little things that you might not think about. And if you can do it while you're paying for the divorce or it's getting paid for, wrap it all in there so you don't have that later expense. Just things like that to think about. And some won't do it because of the kids, if they have kids, same last name and all that. And they'll do it later, which is fine, but it's just some of those things, like you say, think about how important is this?

:: 28:01

0:28:17 - (Amy Irvine): Right.

:: 28:19

0:28:36 - (Amy Irvine): Right.

:: 28:36

0:28:40 - (Amy Irvine): I think having somebody to coach you on that because it's hard. I mean, it is grieving, and grieving has different stages of how you process what's going on emotionally and physically. Right. And having somebody that you can talk to, whether it's a therapist and or a coach, because I think you can actually use both. And then somebody that there's a team of people that often come together and work well when you're talking about going through this process and having that team not have the emotional involvement that you feel I think is really important during those periods of any stress, like any high emotion stressful time. Having a team of people that are just looking at it purely from their angle and not that they don't care, but they're not emotionally involved in the situation.

:: 29:34

0:29:36 - (Paula Lesso): Yes. And having knowing, like, for you and me, and I know for you, especially from getting to know you, you have their best interest at heart, because sometimes it seems like you're just going through the motions. To me, it's clinical. Some people that I've run into, some lawyers, some finesse, it's like, wait a minute, it's not clinical. This has to do with my life. And you give that to them. You give them that, hey, I get it. I know what's happening here, so let's work it out the best way.

:: 30:14

0:30:27 - (Amy Irvine): Yeah. I think it's really important for people to take a few minutes for themselves during this entire process to try to move outside of you mentioned that part of yours is also the journey, like post divorce. Right. And while you're going through it, it's hard to believe what the other side is going to look like. I think when you're going through anything, it's hard to see what the other city is going to look like.

:: 30:58

0:31:29 - (Paula Lesso): Okay, so my email is Paula@paulalesso.com, and.

:: 31:39

0:31:44 - (Paula Lesso): P-A-U-A-L-P-A-U-L-A.

:: 31:48

0:31:51 - (Paula Lesso): Paula.

:: 31:51

0:32:05 - (Paula Lesso): Well, they can find it on Amazon. For a minute, I wanted to say Zoom. Amazon. They can do Amazon. And I am located. I can always mail one to them. I'd love to do that. Or in corning. I live in Corning. So if somebody here in Corning was like, well, I want to meet you or get your book, I would love to meet them and sign it, autograph it for them and get it to them that way. And if there's somebody that does want to talk to me about, hey, are we a good fit?

:: 32:42

0:33:21 - (Amy Irvine): Wow, Paula, that's very generous of you. So that's extremely generous of you. Thank you very much for doing that for our listeners. Well, I hope that everybody Paula, I hope you've enjoyed your time on the podcast. I've certainly enjoyed continuing our conversation. Paula and I are actually going to be doing an event in May of 2024 that we're super pumped about in Corning. So for those of you that aren't located in Corning, feel free to schedule some plans in May of 2024.

:: 33:53

0:34:26 - (Amy Irvine): Paula, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy day to be here with us. We've really enjoyed this podcast. We hope all of our listeners have also enjoyed this podcast. If you have, please feel free to share it with your friends family members. Tuck it away as a saved podcast free. Listen to us, hop on over to itunes and rate us so that more people like you can find our podcast. Thanks everyone.

:: 34:52