Career Shift: Exploring Opportunities in Addiction Counseling

Amy Irvine: 00:01:00

Welcome to Money Roots, the podcast where personal finance gets personal. Each week, Amy and her guests dig deep into the world of finance, making it more approachable and understandable for everyone.

No matter where you are on your financial journey, from savings and investments to budgeting and planning, we'll bring you practical advice, inspiring stories, and expert insights. We believe that everyone has the potential to grow a healthy financial future, and we're here to help you nurture it.

So whether you're a financial guru or just starting to plant the seeds of your financial knowledge, this is the place for you. Get ready to uncover the tools and strategies that can help you thrive financially.

So without further ado, let's dive into today's episode of Money Roots.

Amy Irvine: 00:01:49

Hello, Money Roots listeners. Joining today for the podcast is Heather Meehan. Heather happens to also be my wonderful sister in law.

So there is a little bit of nepotism in today's conversation, or at least the guest of today's conversation.

And one of the reasons I asked Heather to join our show was because we've been hearing a lot from our clients about possible career changes and other careers that they might be interested in.

So I wanted to gather a bunch of people that I knew that work in very different careers and have an opportunity for them to share what they do, how they do it, how it affects the society as a whole, and some of the financial impacts that it makes also to our society. So, Heather, so glad to have you on the show. Thank you so much for spending time away from those wonderful little nephews and my brother today.

It happens to be a Sunday that we're recording just to boot. So thank you so much for doing that.

Heather Meehan: 00:02:53

Absolutely, Amy, it's my pleasure.

Amy Irvine: 00:02:56

So let's start. I know, Heather, you are an addiction resource coordinator with the unit Unified Courts of New York, but what does that mean?

Tell us a little bit about what you do for a job.

Heather Meehan: 00:03:07

So I am actually I'm a resource coordinator with a court system for New York State, but I specifically work in the Steuben County Court, and I work in a misdemeanor court which is in Corning.

And so the drug court is a specific program that individuals sometimes will get like an offer to participate in if a certain crime they committed is either related to substance use disorder or using drugs or alcohol, or if it's the crime is due to supplying their addiction or feeding their addiction. We know that substance use disorder impacts people significantly in all walks of life.

sorder field since January of: 2006

Amy Irvine: 00:04:02

Right. Right after you graduated college. Right.

I mean, that was kind of the first direction that you took after you graduated from college was to get into this particular field of study or this career.

Heather Meehan: 00:04:14

m Alfred University in May of: 2005

So he was about 18 months old when I got into the field. And to be honest, it's interesting because I didn't really. I didn't really choose the substance use disorder field per se.

So I graduated with my bachelor's degree in psychology. And I still. You know, there was a lot of thoughts about me going back for my master's. I just. I had put it off because we just had a baby.

And I did my internship for one of the schools I went to. I went to Alfred State and Alfred University. And one of the internships that I did was for a program.

It's not around anymore, but it was a local program called the CAP program.

And what that did was when individuals came to, like, the local emergency room that were detoxing from drugs or alcohol, I would go and talk to them with a counselor who I was working with to see if they would be interested in getting treatment and getting help. And that was early on, probably when I was at Alfred State, I think I did the internship.

So I was maybe 19 years old, 20 years old, but it really kind of stuck with me. Part of that is I have a lot of addiction in my family.

My grandfather was an alcoholic for a long, long time, but he did get sober when I was a child. But I do know the impact that that had left on, you know, family members.

And I have other individuals, and sometimes people don't get better or they struggle longer to get better. So that's always kind of been a passion for me, is just, how can I help? So when I actually applied for the job, my very first job in the field was.

It was at the Mercy Care Addiction Treatment center in Hornell. I applied for. It was inpatient, and I wasn't credentialed yet with my license for counseling. So I got a per DM job as a counselor assistant.

And I worked whatever hours they gave me. I worked with all different counselors that had been in the field a long time. I learned so much. And it was.

It's impatient as any type of residential or inpatient program that individuals live in for a period of time. It is a very on the go type of job. Like you never know what crisis is coming up or what happens or whatnot. So.

But that really is where I found my passion.

my licensure, which I did in: 2009

Amy Irvine: 00:07:03

And what's required for that? Heather, like when you talk about getting your licensure, what are the, are there supervision hours? Are there classes you need to take?

What's involved in that?

Heather Meehan: 00:07:14

Yeah, so the license I'm talking about is called a casac and that's what it's called in New York State. Other states it's called something a little different. But the CASAC is a credentialed alcohol and substance abuse counselor.

And when I got mine, it was a little bit of a hot minute ago. Amy. So the requirements were a little bit different, but it is, I will cite later the website you can go to. But.

So there are a number of classes you have to take, but there's different specific trainings related to substance use. There's at the time, because I had my bachelor's, I had to do 6,000 work experience hours, which is, if it's full time, it's about three years worth.

There's the specific trainings. There was 350 hours related to substance use or counseling. And then of course there's supervision hours, regular supervision.

There was also at the time, initially you have to get like, not really like reference checks, but you have to have people that, you know, know you, that you know, believe you would do a great job, that you have good morals or good, you know, ethics, those kind of things. And it was a long time ago.

And that was the nice thing then is they used a lot of my coursework that I took at Alfred University when I specialized in counseling for some of those. So that was like for initial. And then once you send it in, they approve you. And at the time it was like snail mail.

So it took a while, but they approve you to see if you're eligible yet to take the test. If you're not, you get a letter back that states, you know, you are now considered a CASAC T, which is in training.

You have this many hours left to get and then just please send it in. But for me, when I sent mine in, I was very surprised and got a letter back that said, congratulations, you can take the test.

This is the next, the next test day. And my supervisor happened to be there and she's like, oh, you're taking that test.

And I wanted so badly at the time, I was so nervous that I wanted to wait. And she's like, heather, just take it. You're ready. But it was.

I got lucky because prior to me taking the test, within like six months prior, there wasn't just a written exam. There was an oral exam, too. So you had to. The written exam, I think, was like 150 questions that are, you know, challenging.

But then the oral exam would be.

You would go in front of a panel of people that would ask you scenarios and questions about how you would handle things or about, like, best practices for counseling, all that stuff. I lucked out because a lot of people would pass the written and not do so well on the oral exam the first time. So. But I ended up.

I ended up getting that first kind of group of people that didn't have to take the oral exam. So.

Amy Irvine: 00:10:06

So somebody who's thinking of a career change, you know, that knowing, like, how would I ever get experienced in this kind of field? You have to do a lot of work in order to get that experience.

So you have somebody overlooking you, watching what you're doing, guiding you, giving you direction, sort of like a residency, for lack of a better word, that you. You get that experience. But in order to actually get that K Sec, you have to do that written and you have to do the verbal. At this stage of the game.

Heather Meehan: 00:10:34

Yeah, they don't. They don't. They did cancel the verbal. The oral exam. Yes, they did. Stop that. So I lucked out with that, thankfully.

But because I think at this stage in the game, I would be able to do it. But somebody that's real new and trying to do that, it's just very, you know, I've heard it was very nerve wracking.

Like, I've worked with some other counselors that are amazing counselors that back in the day had to do that test and they had to take it a couple times because the oral part was just so hard.

Amy Irvine: 00:11:03

Scary, overwhelming. Yeah, yeah.

Heather Meehan: 00:11:05

But I think that now they've made changes to how to get the Case Act. So a lot of it's similar.

ter's degree, that counts for: 2000

I don't think they do right now, but Corning does. And they have a specific CASAC program. So they have classes that you can take. A lot of it can be online, and then they guide you.

Your advisor would guide you with kind of the next steps. But a lot of the other things are the same, like for that initial getting your license. So getting your license, though, is. It is a lot of work.

But you also, if you want to continue in the field, every three years you have to do a renewal. So you don't have to take another exam, but you have to do, I believe it's like 60 training hours.

They have a certain amount specific to ethics, specific to, like, mandated reporter training. There's, there's, there's like other specific ones related to, like, changes with.

If there's changes with medication, assisted treatment, because sometimes people are on medicine to help them with cravings. So it's very structured.

Amy Irvine: 00:12:24

Sure, sure.

Heather Meehan: 00:12:25

But it needs to be because there's.

Anytime you're working with people that are considered a vulnerable population or they're not in the best state and they're not healthy people, you know, work with them, counselors and other staff, they really need to be on their best game and in good health, too, mentally, because it can. It can be very. Can be very tough.

Amy Irvine: 00:12:45

Right. And in the financial impact to these families just from, like, people that are going through any kind of addiction, but especially drug and alcohol.

And I'm not saying that other addictions aren't. Gambling is also another family impact financially, but drug and addiction is something that, you know, it is, can be very impactful.

And you mentioned this with your own family, emotionally and financially, certainly from a standpoint of, you know, when you got into it to now, you've. You've stayed into it. So there must be a reason why you like the work that you're doing.

What would you say are some of those reasons for people that are interested in exploring changes in their lives to know, hey, this might be a good, you know, job for me to look at exploring.

Heather Meehan: 00:13:34

So whether or not I am talking about my multiple years as a counselor or a supervisor in the substance use field or currently I work in the court, one of the things I've always liked about it is the clients that I work with, I think that it's very, very hard for people that are already really struggling to come in and trust you and to talk to you and feel like you're not judging them. I know for me, some parts of that job have always come natural to me where I've always been approachable and definitely not judgmental.

The last thing people need is to come in and feel like they're being judged on the spot because chances are they won't come back.

And so I think that a lot of times when you go in, at least in the counseling part, you do this assessment that they get asked a lot of really personal questions about trauma and about things that can be really hard to talk about. And so you definitely need to be gentle and you need to be kind. I think that that goes a long way.

But I really enjoy helping people think about changing their life and finding the positive qualities they still have. Just because they have an addiction or a substance use problem, it doesn't mean they're not good people and they're not worth of a better life.

And I think that one of the, you know, reasons, and one of the reasons I like it so much is that I've seen people that so many others might say they'll never get it. They've been in rehab this many times, but I've actually seen them get sober and stay sober.

And sometimes people struggle a little bit and they'll relapse, but they'll get back on track. But I've never been one.

Like, every time someone came in, even if I already knew them from a previous time that I've worked with them, I've never been one to be like, oh, here they come again. It was more like, great, you're back. Let's talk about what we can do different this time.

And I think that my role is different now in the courts because. And I did this for myself, but I used to, when I was a counselor, I would sit on various drug court teams as a counselor, as a treatment provider.

And I always liked the purpose of the program. I thought it was good. But when I decided to make the change, it was more for, you know, it takes its toll on you when you do that for a long time.

And a lot of times I consider myself an empath. So a lot of things, even though you're supposed to leave it at the door when you're a counselor, you don't leave it at the door.

You go home and you think about those families and you think about people that are really. Maybe they didn't show up to their appointment for the last couple weeks. So you're like, geez, I hope they're okay. And I still do that with this job.

But I don't get into deep therapy with them. I'm the coordinator. So I do talk to them about how they're. And I offer support, but I also coordinate their treatment.

So where they're Going for treatment. Their counselor's the one that provides the therapy now, which sometimes I miss it.

But in terms of where I'm at today in my life and what my needs are, it is a really good blend of still being able to give back in the field, but not exhausting myself emotionally so that I can still be a good person at home for my family and other parts of my life.

Amy Irvine: 00:16:58

Yeah, yeah. I like what you were saying about, you know, the non judgmental part. And in the financial planning world, we have the same issue.

We always say don't should on yourself. Right. I should have done this, I should have done that. I should, you know, don't should on yourself because we can't go back and recreate that.

Heather Meehan: 00:17:16

It's right.

Amy Irvine: 00:17:17

There's zero benefit of actually shoulding on yourself.

You need to just say, all right, from this step forward, I'm going to deal with the consequences of, of the actions that I've taken previously and I'm going to move forward and I'm going to learn from them and develop. But if you constantly are thinking, oh, I should have done this, I should have done that, it's almost like a barrier.

It's almost like a wall exists when you should on yourself constantly. Right. And it's easier said than done. I think all of us know that there's tons of things that I could say, well, I should have done that.

But if you're trying to recover from any kind of trauma or any kind of decisions that you've made previously that led to actions that weren't so great in your life, then shoulding on yourself does not get you over that wall. It just kind of keeps being that barrier.

So I like, you know, the fact that one of the things that you do as a counselor, and I know you don't necessarily coordinate it now, but as a counselor, that was one of the things that you did. And anybody that's in that field right now, that's one of the things that they help people get over that barrier on.

And I would say, you know, what's, maybe what's, that's probably something you like about it, but it's also challenging, right? It's kind of that double edged sword a little bit.

Heather Meehan: 00:18:44

Yeah. Stigma. Anytime there's stigma and anytime you're trying to kind of battle stigma and break it down, it's not just the community.

Sometimes people have their own perceptions of themselves, like as a bad, I'm a bad person because I have this illness or you know, many people think that it's just A choice. But the reality is when they, when people use the first time, is it a choice? Sure. But they don't choose to become addicted.

Nobody would ever, ever want to choose to be an addict or an alcoholic or a person with a substance use disorder. Nobody ever chooses it.

And I, and I think that is something that over the years, every time I'm able to have this discussion with other people, I always will say that they may not agree with me, but I will always, I will always say that because it's it really to see when you're in the field, like, obviously as a family member, I've seen it on that side.

But in terms of, in the field, like the mental anguish and the pain that people really go through to handle and to manage their life and to gain trust and stuff, it's. It's really, really hard and it's a lot of.

And you know, the other challenge I would say that I, that I personally have, and that's whether it's in the job I have now or in the past, would be some people don't get better. And sometimes you don't reach everybody.

And sometimes people aren't ready, and sometimes just because you want them to be ready, because you can see that they need to be ready because their life's falling apart and you don't want them to die. Sometimes people aren't ready and sometimes, you know, people die. I've lost, I've lost people that I've worked with as well. And it's.

That pain is never. It doesn't get better. It's very, very heart wrenching. But I think that the one thing I can say is that, you know, it is an illness.

And like other illnesses, sometimes people get worse and sometimes people get better. But the important thing to note with substance use disorder, especially with someone that's truly addicted, is that, you know, it's.

They can become a person in recovery, but they always have that illness. Right? It can be, it can be in remission, they can be in recovery for many, many, many years or the rest of their life.

But, you know, it's always important to remember that it's always there so that, you know, if they're starting to notice they're, you know, having thoughts again or cravings or they're just not in a good place mentally, that it's good to maybe get connected and talk with someone. You know, many people stay connected with like a recovery support group. They go to meetings or they do.

Like, there's a program locally that people go on hikes that they get together like people in recovery to support each other physically. Because if you. There's that saying, move a muscle, change a thought. Right. Because a lot of times when we're stuck in our.

In our heads, it helps us to be active.

So, I mean, I think a lot of people that I know that have been in recovery a long time stay connected with some sort of support, whether it's meeting or whether it's just people that have helped them get their lives on track.

Amy Irvine: 00:22:01

Sure. I love that idea. Move a muscle.

Heather Meehan: 00:22:06

Change of thought.

Amy Irvine: 00:22:07

Change of thought. I really love that concept because that can be true of anything in life.

Heather Meehan: 00:22:14

Oh, yes. It helps with anxiety, it helps with depression. It helps with feeling stuck with a situation. And I can't take credit for that saying.

It's been around a long time. But I definitely believe it to be true.

Amy Irvine: 00:22:27

I mean, I'm even thinking about, you know, some of the clients that I work with on the financial therapy side. That's a great. You know, because it doesn't.

It doesn't cost anything to put a pair other than the sneakers itself, maybe, but it doesn't cost anything to put a pair of sneakers on or a pair of shoes on and go out for a walk if you're feeling. For example. One of the things that, you know, we will see on that side is potential overspending. Right. Or anxiety around money in general.

I mean, we have clients that are super anxious about money in general to say to them, you know, the next time you have this level of anxiety, just go for a little walk around the block or just, you know, maybe lift some weights or whatever that might be that they. They enjoy whatever that body movement is. I.

I really like that idea and that concept, and I think that's something that's really important about anything in life. So, yes, I think that's a great, great idea to share again, not just with what you're dealing with, but on anything in life.

And, you know, that kind of leads to that financial connection sometimes that we see with people that obviously, if you have an addiction, there's a cost in both jobs, in product, in, you know, a lot of ways that it affects your life. So some of the things that you're doing now, like working in the court system, I know you're.

You're coordinating the treatment that people are getting. But why did they get to the court system? You know, how did they get to the court system? And what is it that the.

Like, where does that defined treatment come from? And are there some things that you've seen or have patients that you've seen how this has helped them financially, too.

Heather Meehan: 00:24:21

So typically for the courts, we would get an offer letter from an attorney that lets us know that their client is interested in treatment court. And to be eligible, there's different levels of treatment court.

So the one that I work in is for felony level, and then I also work in a misdemeanor court.

But usually they have a charge or charges that are related to substance use in some way, or they were under the influence when they committed it, or they have a history of, you know, whether it's possession charges or sales or other kinds of things that, you know, it's just been a problem in their life. So the first step is the offer letter, and that usually comes from the attorney. And a lot of our attorneys are very, very.

They know a lot about the possibility of drug court or treatment court.

And then after that, you know, one of the coordinators, we would screen them if the person's interested in doing an assessment to see, you know, if they're high risk or high need for the court, are they interested in getting better, those kinds of things. And then we let them know, like, one of the rules would be to be in treatment, right? To follow treatment recommendations and those kind of things.

And so they would go to, like, a local treatment provider for an evaluation, and then they would follow whatever that provider recommends, whether it's outpatient. Some people need a higher level, like inpatient followed by residential. But they're.

They're made aware that once they sign their treatment court contract, they're expected to follow what's recommended. And there's also, like, some people, actually, their attorneys will make the offer, but they're already incarcerated. So some people will come.

They will agree to drug to drug court or drug treatment court while they're incarcerated.

So they, you know, it's actually a really good way to help them kind of get out of there and to get more connected on their recovery and start to make changes in their life. I mean, there's. It's a very challenging and tough program at times.

In the beginning, there's a lot of expectation, and in terms of, like, the financial impact, I mean, when people are actively using, or at least the people that we work with that are very new to recovery, it's not always the case, but many times they're not working when they first come on drug court because they can't. And sometimes it's because they have, you know, a lot of different treatment appointments every day. So they need to.

Or they need to start to get where they're used to a routine and they start to feel better. Right. And that's not everybody. Some people that come in, they already, they are employed and so this helps them keep their job. Right.

If they stay healthier.

But in terms of people that become successful in their recovery, whether it's from treatment corps or from their other ways, the financial impact can be greatly improved because they, they become more productive members of society. They can work, they can earn money and support their family.

A lot of times we know that, you know, a lot of individuals that have a felony may not get considered for certain jobs. Right. But I think that, and you know, sometimes the offer letter will be, if they complete treatment court, their sentence is reduced.

Some that's not always the case, but sometimes so they're able, if they're doing well, they're able to be employed and you know, get back into being able to be, you know, a productive member of society as well as, you know, the goal is to reduce recidivism so that they hopefully will not continue to commit crimes in the community or be a public safety risk. Because sometimes it's, you know, we see DWIs and things like that too.

But you know, definitely people that, you know, that aren't well and even if it's not just substance use, but it's mental health, some people don't work for a while because they have to get better and that can be really hard. So they need a lot of support. Support. And then not working for many people can affect their self worth because they are used to working.

So you know, a lot of cycle.

Amy Irvine: 00:28:37

Right through there, right? Yeah, yeah. What's causing it? Is it the chicken or the egg? Yeah, right.

Heather Meehan: 00:28:41

But it's also, if you're not healthy enough to work yet, then it's important to wait. But I mean it's all individualized and some people, like I said, they come in with full time jobs and they keep those jobs. So it really.

And same with treatment. I've worked with people that, you know, had jobs and they just, you know, that wasn't the one area that was affected.

I've worked with people in the counseling setting that their job sent them for an evaluation to keep their job.

I mean there's so many different people come from so many different backgrounds and there's their need for help comes from different ways and different areas in their life. But you know, like I said, not everybody is successful whether it's with treatment corps or with recovery.

But for the ones that are, it makes all the difference. It really does.

Amy Irvine: 00:29:28

Yeah.

Sounds like such a rewarding piece of your career that you actually get to see that impact and see people, you know, again, as you mentioned previously, they're in recovery. Right. They're in remission that you used.

And so keeping them there is really the important thing and how it impacts society as a whole financially, but them emotionally and financially as well. What a rewarding career.

If people are interested in thinking about making a career change, where would they even start to find out more information about this?

Heather Meehan: 00:30:07

So if you live in New York State. If you don't live in New York State, I don't have the websites. You'll have to kind of search that on your own.

But if you live in New York State, there is an office of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services. That's a mouthful website. It's called Oasis. OAS.

It's OASAS.NY.gov and they have not only a whole list of ways to get into the field and to get credentialed, because there's different credentials, too. There's peer credentialing, counseling, those kinds of things. But there's also a way to search programs that are OASIS programs for people.

Like if you have a family member even that needs help, help, you can get on there and look up inpatients or residentials or outpatients, and they will all show up in New York State with a phone number, contacts, any of those things.

Amy Irvine: 00:31:01

Yeah, that's fantastic.

Because there might be people that are listening right now that have that situation that you just mentioned is that they suspect their family member has an addiction problem. And I think if you suspect it, you know that that's probably the case. And it's. You know, how do you.

How do you even introduce them into a program before it becomes a felony or a misdemeanor? You know, just getting them help that they might need. Heather, it has been such a pleasure having you on the show today.

I cannot express my appreciation enough for you to take the time to share your journey in this profession and where people can explore a little bit more on their own and, you know, see if it's something that they might be interested in either as a second career or maybe it's their first career. You know, it could be something that people are listening to, that they're at the beginning of the journey of their working life, and they.

They are interested in this kind of thing. If people are interested, is there.

Is there a way that they can reach out to you to get more direct information, or is it just best to go to those websites and we'll put them up on, on the, in the, in the show notes for people to click on.

Heather Meehan: 00:32:14

I would suggest the website just because if I, you know, I mean, I would certainly leave my email, but the reality is I would probably tell them to go to the website.

Amy Irvine: 00:32:24

So just go directly.

Heather Meehan: 00:32:25

Yes, I would go to the website and there are, there should be contact information on the website too, if people have questions.

Amy Irvine: 00:32:33

That's great.

Well, again, thank you so much for your time today and we really appreciate you taking the time away from your family on a Sunday to record all of this. If you are interested in this, please go to the Show Notes and dig through the materials.

And if you know somebody that may be struggling with addiction or you know somebody who might be interested in exploring this for career, please feel free to share this with them. And you know, always, always let us know if this is something that you want to know. More information on. We appreciate you listening today.

Thank you everyone.

Heather Meehan: 00:33:08

Thanks Amy.

Amy Irvine: 00:33:10

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